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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Sep 26, 2012 - 10:52am PT
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The wider picture.
Both the FA and SA were done for the poor reasons. FA for establishing an "A6" by whatever means. No attempt to learn current ethics and style. The Beyer trenching techniques are regarded, in the US, as a 20-year-dead end, largely abandoned. Yet here they've been used heavily. But, sponsors are happy. There's a video. Names and photos in magazines.
The video is bad, shows drilling holes for bashees and even shows heavy hammer blows to remove a obviously deeply drilled hook.
The second ascent? More sponsors involved. A blog. A DVD on the way. More drilling. The drilling starts even before the second ascent has stepped up on the rock, which would seem not to support the idea that the second ascent was ever really serious about being mentally prepare for what an "A6" might throw at you.
The big achievement of the second ascent is to show how poorly the FA party did. Evidently, Palmada is strangely unable or unwilling to to top-step in his aiders. The route's not A6. Etc, etc.
Here, online, it's become, The other guy, look at him, he's worse than me.
This whole affair is so negative, depressing. It's sucked me in, and here I am, whining online about a route I've not seen and people I've never met. Every opinion of mine expressed here is based on second-hand info.
My last word, for now. Sorry if anything I've said is mistaken.
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BlackSpider
Ice climber
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Sep 26, 2012 - 11:01am PT
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The second ascent? More sponsors involved. A blog. A DVD on the way.
Where are the sponsors? I don't see any on Jensen's blog. As for having a blog and updating along the way, that's practically standard procedure these days on the climbing interwebs. A DVD? The only DVD I've seen mentioned in this thread is the upcoming Wings of Steel DVD about Ammon's second ascent of that route. I don't see any mention from Jensen of a DVD about this. Hell, his last post basically advocated chopping the entire thing other than the rap anchors.
More drilling. The drilling starts even before the second ascent has stepped up on the rock, which would seem not to support the idea that the second ascent was ever really serious about being mentally prepare for what an "A6" might throw at you.
It's more than a bit disingenuous to claim that drilling a single ground belay bolt for upward pull on a solo anchor and to avoid using a contrived belay higher up "would seem not to support the idea that the second ascent was ever really serious about being mentally prepare for what an "A6" might throw at you."
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BlackSpider
Ice climber
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Sep 26, 2012 - 11:16am PT
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I hope I don't find what I'm expecting to find.
Retro-drilling on Weird Science? Yeah, I hope you don't find that either.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Sep 26, 2012 - 11:20am PT
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hey Black Spider:
http://www.conclusivesystems.com/danger/?page_id=27
Jensen's own words:
Thank you for your support!
Many thanks to those of you that have sponsored this ascent so far. We are making good progress toward our goal of $2000, which will cover the cost of ropes, certain specialized gear, food, and travel expenses. Those of you that have sent me checks so far have really encouraged me with your contributions and wonderful notes and letters. Thank you!
When the ascent is finished, I’ll be sending all contributors a DVD documentary of the ascent. And I’ll add nice, large, high-quality picture-prints to those of you that have contributed $100 or more.
I still need more funds, so if you haven’t contributed yet, please consider helping me make this ascent. Be a part of climbing history, get the DVD, and enjoy the satisfaction of helping a “poor climber” bag this important second ascent!
End quote.
As for the "contrived" hook anchor. How would anyone would know it was "contrived" from the ground?
Plus Jensen's rope soloing. You get to the end of the rope, 200 feet up, all you do is tie another on, and keep going. The rope does not move up and down through the pieces, so you can keep stretching a pitch out as far as you want. You can plan ahead, have a spare lead rope tied in with all the spare gear on the ground.
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BlackSpider
Ice climber
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Sep 26, 2012 - 11:29am PT
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Jensen's own words:
Thank you for your support!
Many thanks to those of you that have sponsored this ascent so far. We are making good progress toward our goal of $2000, which will cover the cost of ropes, certain specialized gear, food, and travel expenses. Those of you that have sent me checks so far have really encouraged me with your contributions and wonderful notes and letters. Thank you!
When the ascent is finished, I’ll be sending all contributors a DVD documentary of the ascent. And I’ll add nice, large, high-quality picture-prints to those of you that have contributed $100 or more.
I still need more funds, so if you haven’t contributed yet, please consider helping me make this ascent. Be a part of climbing history, get the DVD, and enjoy the satisfaction of helping a “poor climber” bag this important second ascent!
End quote.
Didn't see that but I didn't read the blog all that closely. Curious if he's actually still planning to make it given how the second ascent turned out compared to what he was originally thinking it might be. Richard? Still planning the DVD or did the route put you off from making it?
As for the "contrived" hook anchor. How would anyone would know it was "contrived" from the ground.
Jensen mentions that a good crack system is easily visible from the ground at the length where a pitch would logically end.
Plus Jensen's rope soloing. You get to the end of the rope, 200 feet up, all you do is tie another on, and keep going. The rope does not move up and down through the pieces, so you can keep stretching a pitch out as far as you want. You can plan ahead, have a spare lead rope tied in with all the spare gear on the ground.
Is it really worth doing that just to avoid placing one ground bolt, which seems to be the issue here?
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Sep 26, 2012 - 02:12pm PT
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420 bump
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Sep 26, 2012 - 02:20pm PT
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It's 4:20 somewhere.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Sep 26, 2012 - 02:23pm PT
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So let me get this straight. No one should have ever done an sa. Richard should have just turned around when he saw what it really was, but then he wouldn't have been able to tell the tale?
Dont you guys see? By leaving these travestys you are doing more harm than good.
Maybe if people had decried infitada more or gone and made an honest route out of it then pelut never would have got the idea that this style is cool.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Oakland, CA
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Sep 26, 2012 - 02:38pm PT
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This is great. I thought that the Wings of Steel dramz was over.
My only regret is that my spanish isn't better.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
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Sep 26, 2012 - 03:25pm PT
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I thought that the Wings of Steel dramz was over.
Some people have drama queenery as part of their DNA.
Others really do like sloppy seconds.
Sometimes it's the same team. Umm. Person. Eww.
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turd
climber
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Sep 27, 2012 - 02:19am PT
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Remember the time that spanish guy said american climbers get criticized less than foreign climbers? And he said it to Richard Jensen?
That was awesome.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Sep 27, 2012 - 02:39am PT
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Lol!
I for one am glad Richard followed through and made a statement that Pelut's "route" was not acceptable and effectively erased it.
Pelut's "route" is still there though, and should serve as an example of what not to do while "climbing".
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Sep 27, 2012 - 10:26am PT
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Gear beta for the third ascentionist:
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Sep 28, 2012 - 12:50pm PT
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Looking forward to your report Jer!
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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Sep 28, 2012 - 01:11pm PT
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what the hell is that Chief? "washing" the faces that get rained on?
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Sep 28, 2012 - 01:28pm PT
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what the hell is that Chief? "washing" the faces that get rained on?
Nah. They're cops, practicing their pepper spray skills.
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Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
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Oct 11, 2012 - 06:40am PT
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Still no news, Jeremy?
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Oct 11, 2012 - 12:30pm PT
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Ahh, I was wondering when this thread would rise back to the top of the stack.
Okay, here's some of my observations and photos of the start of the "Danger" route.
Here, the photo of Pelut, laughing, smiling, pointing at a new bolt, accusing Richard of being "scared"
What I did not notice in that photo was that there is a bashee, even lower! Pelut is holding on to it in the photo.
If Richard's bolt is at chest/collarbone height, then this bashee is at base of ribcage/navel height, while standing on the ground. Bashee looks old, stained reddish, so I assume this is Pelut's bashee. Why is it there? Lame. Very lame.
There are FOUR bashees and a bolt in this picture. Lower middle of pic, is the Jensen bolt. Even lower, to right, is the Pelut bashee. Three more bashees are fixed, higher, each within a foot or so of each other (click on the pic to see a bigger version). The Tomahawk is mine, tapped with rock (yes, that one in the pic, forgot a hammer) from standing on the ground. Not much rock left to play with. It's the smallest size Tomahawk.
There are two bashees and a bolt lower than my basic, neat, caveman-style beak placement, placed while standing on the ground. I could reach the next bashee up.
Another photo, taken from the trail looking higher up the first pitch:
I counted about 40 drilled holes (not placements in cracks, just holes in blank rock) on pitch 1, including those filled with rivets/bolts. Probably at least 30 drilled by FA party, more drilled by SA to bypass the flared holes left by the FA party.
A big mess.
Kor, Ingalls, and Hurley set the bar high in 1962. The Fishers is no place for beginners to pound holes.
Pelut, please take some classes, some basic aid instruction classes with someone who knows how to use aiders. Northern Spain has some of the best free climbers in the world, Iker Pou, Josune Bereziartu, etc. but the standard for aid climbing appears very poor.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Oct 11, 2012 - 12:38pm PT
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Yowza!!!
Jeremy-
Yer mom called Pelut "LIGHT DUTY" Last night during our weekly Baccarat game!!
BWHAHAHAHHA!!
She said she could have done it with 3 holes.....
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Heyzeus
climber
Hollywood,Ca
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Oct 11, 2012 - 01:09pm PT
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Who removed Jensen's bolt and hanger in Crunch's photo?
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SuperTopo on the Web
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Let us know!