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jstan
climber
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May 23, 2012 - 09:01pm PT
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I just realized...the real problem here is not morals or lack of preparation or bad guiding...it is just the innate American ability to not grasp numbers well. 300 people attempting the summit of Everest and only four die. That is miraculously low compared to any other 8000 meter peak?!
A news source claimed some 400 sherpa were helping these people negotiate the khumbu. Everest has become the world's largest ferrata. No limit has been placed on the manpower needed to implement it.
Less than a year ago, I asked here why we don’t make the Nose a ferrata. You could get hundreds up each day. Just like Half Dome.
Aren't we segueing in that same direction?
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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May 23, 2012 - 09:09pm PT
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Um, no. Aside from the Everest anomaly, the style in which people climb has generally improved over time along with technique, knowledge and equipment.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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May 23, 2012 - 09:20pm PT
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Yes I was wrong it was not Hamm in the Olympics. It was Brandi in the World Cup.
I stand corrected. Except I still stand that it was quite a bit ore shameful than Jona posing in BC. Only a few hundred witnessed that, where as Brandi (isn't that a stripper name) was seen by up to a billion people world wide. American strumpets stripping for a world audience. For shame.
At least there is nothing sacred about soccer or the World Cup.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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May 23, 2012 - 09:30pm PT
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"it was Brandi"
So glad it wasn't Fartrad or Locklear, I mean Locker.
Soooo freakin glad.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
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May 23, 2012 - 09:31pm PT
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Philo are you nuts?
Brandi is a professional soccer player who doffed her jersey upon winning the World Cup in Pasadena, California. A very forgiving place. She competed game after game just to get to the finals.
Me...I thought it was stupid when she doffed her jersey but she was in the moment of the lifetime of her career so I waved its off as a weird moment of triumph. And she didn't do it to be sexy, she's flat chested.
Jona....she's posing in stripper LUCITE HEELS in sexy poses at one of the Everest base camps. She's not in competition, she's not in one moment that may or may never again happen in her lifetime.
Please tell me where there's an equal comparison.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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May 23, 2012 - 09:38pm PT
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But what if she was the first up Everest in Da Brim?
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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May 23, 2012 - 09:52pm PT
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Flouride, there is no equal comparison. Neither act offended me in the slightest.
I merely wanted to point out the ludicrousness of kicking Jona in the bustier when there are real dilemmas on Everest.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
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May 23, 2012 - 09:55pm PT
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Philo you still don't get it.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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May 23, 2012 - 10:12pm PT
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Yeah Flouride I do.
Some folks are offended. OK. So what.
i am offended by the commercial circus show that has become Everest.
But adventure tourism is bringing in over 1.4 billion dollars into those economies.
I doubt they want to pull the plug because Jona did not demonstrate what some believe is proper behavior. Posing in costume like a exotic dancer doesn't make you a bimbo hooker any more than dressing like a gentleman makes you gentle or a man.
So some folks are offended I understand,
It still is inappropriate to cast such misogynistic aspersions at someone with no real knowledge of that person.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
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May 23, 2012 - 10:19pm PT
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No Philo.
You can't put a World Class soccer world champ who worked her life off for that title in the same place as a girl who wants to be photographed in stripper heels and a tight dress at the base of Everest so she has some hot looking photos in her portfolio.
If she's as bad ass as you say, post it up! What has she done? Pics? (since it seems you say she likes those). If she's actually there to climb the mountain I wish her all the best.
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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
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May 23, 2012 - 11:53pm PT
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I heard that Lucite heels are great for bolt removal. Didn't K&K take a pair to Chalten?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 24, 2012 - 12:22am PT
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Philo....stand tall....don't let that lady bring you down to her level....RJ
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Fluoride
Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
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May 24, 2012 - 12:29am PT
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Johnny, always thought of you as a friend. This is just reasoning going on here.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 24, 2012 - 12:39am PT
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I thought we were married....? Friends...? I'm crushed...
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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May 24, 2012 - 02:02am PT
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If she's as bad ass as you say, post it up! What has she done? Pics?
She went to Ouray and took some pics with climbers she thought were bad ass. Pics were posted already.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
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May 24, 2012 - 02:57am PT
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That doesn't count.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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May 24, 2012 - 08:34am PT
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Why does this totally relevant thread have less posts than that stupid *TR* thread? Bump for a worthy discussion.
Interesting topic. I don't know that I have qualifications to have an opinion on the morality of high- altitude guiding. Everest just seems like such a circus these days. Such a farce to stand in a line to get dragged up a mountain covered in bodies and litter. It, literally, boggles my mind, why anyone would want to pay $60K(?) to do it.
Side note: Poor Jona sort of got unfairly dragged into this thread. I don't know her, but from all accounts she is a nice girl with legit climbing skills. That being said.. I'm about as un-spiritual as it gets and I admit I cringed a bit at the cheesecake shot on the memorial. It's not her personally.. it's what that photo represents in terms of the state of Chomolungma in modern times that I find a bit disturbing.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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May 24, 2012 - 12:10pm PT
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Here is a current picture from Everest Base Camp.
This is bad ass climber Mariano Galvan.
He just did an unsupported, un assisted no O2 ascent of Everest.
He carried all his own gear, climbed without sherpa support and did not use the fixed lines.
Big Kudos to Jona's friend! Now that's climbing in style.
Oh and he is almost nekid at base camp. Does he get a morals pass because of his accomplishment or should he be blamed for the 11 dead on Everest because of his amoral impropriety?
I just yesterday talked with Jona. She has read this thread and finds it simultaneously funny and sad.
She realizes how many people judge without understanding. It was the Sherpas at BC that set up her BC shoot and encouraged her to do it. So much for offending the natives.
Side note: Poor Jona sort of got unfairly dragged into this thread. I don't know her, but from all accounts she is a nice girl with legit climbing skills. That being said.. I'm about as un-spiritual as it gets and I admit I cringed a bit at the cheesecake shot on the memorial. It's not her personally.. it's what that photo represents in terms of the state of Chomolungma in modern times that I find a bit disturbing. Thank you Justthemaid, that was a proper response, well said and I agree with you.
So I am a little annoyed that Jim Donini's legitimate thread, which by the way I agree with whole heartedly, has morphed into a referendum against a friend of mine.
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