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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Aug 16, 2011 - 10:41am PT
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National Sales Tax. Everything.
The more you can afford to spend for your lifestyle, the more tax you pay.
But you get to "decide" what you are willing to pay tax on.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Aug 16, 2011 - 10:41am PT
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Other than that, no I'm not asking for anything except the retirement benefits I've paid into all my life.
Or as one of the GOP presidential candidates referred to them:
"unpaid entitlements"
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Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
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Aug 16, 2011 - 10:54am PT
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Holy crow !! I agree with Hedge, let's roll back ALL the Bush tax cuts. Yes, that means I'll be paying more. Let's get something considerably more than the current 50% of us paying some federal income tax too.Let's drop the EIC as well.
So I'll pay an extra 5% on my 60K, and those rich people you bash endlessly will pay another 5% on their million.
Fair enough?
And let's make the government cut two dollars for every increased tax dollar.
The National sales tax is not a good solution.The lower and middle class will pay another tax on virtually everything they earn.
While we are at it, let's make every single person and company receiving any form of assistance re-sign up and then let's scrutinize the app's anew.
Farm subsities, welfare, unemployment, medicaid, everything, anyone getting Social Security under age 62.
What say the unemployment vacation is three weeks, after which time you are assigned to a government task you have to show up for at seven am five days a week unless you can document you are going for a job interview.No show means no dough.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Aug 16, 2011 - 11:18am PT
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cc, do you ever bother to read your links? The common link with Republican voters seems to be lack of true information.
http://www.nytimes.com/1984/03/29/us/gov-lamm-asserts-elderly-if-very-ill-have-duty-to-die.html?sec=health
Editors' Note: November 23, 1993, Tuesday An article on Oct. 1, reporting on Senate testimony by Hillary Rodham Clinton about health care, included a passage about former Gov. Richard D. Lamm of Colorado. It said Mr. Lamm "drew widespread antagonism when he said in 1984 that the elderly, if ill, 'have got a duty to die and get out of the way.' " Similar characterizations of Mr. Lamm's speech of March 27, 1984, were published soon after it was given, and have appeared periodically. But that version of Mr. Lamm's remarks is a distortion, as Governor Lamm complained in 1984. He said then that insufficient attention to detail by the news media had led to a misinterpretation. An editorial in The Times on March 31, 1984, and articles on April 1, April 4, June 30 and Sept. 5 of that year reported on criticism generated by his speech or included accounts of his statements, but noted that his remarks had been misconstrued. Nevertheless incorrect accounts appeared in The Times on March 29, 1984; April 1, 1984; April 18, 1984; May 11, 1984; Jan. 5, 1985; Jan. 18, 1985; Aug. 18, 1985, and Aug. 20, 1985. In a letter dated Oct. 8, 1993, Mr. Lamm provided excerpts from the 1984 speech, in which he spoke philosophically about the terminally ill of any age, about the extraordinary costs of high-technology medicine and about the ability of medical science to stave off death far beyond considerations of quality of life. After saying that society should be talking about the ethical implications, Mr. Lamm said, according to the excerpts: "We've got a duty to die and get out of the way with all of our machines and artificial hearts and everything else like that and let the other society, our kids, build a reasonable life." In his letter last month, Mr. Lamm wrote that he never said "the elderly or the terminally ill have a duty to die," and he added, "I was essentially raising a general statement about the human condition, not beating up on the elderly."
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Aug 16, 2011 - 11:33am PT
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Gary - Weak rebuttal there. You know full well that the original remarks
came from the Gov's heart and only after the public outrage they caused did he and his advisers try the tactic of "I misspoke"
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Aug 16, 2011 - 02:05pm PT
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Wow -- I didn't expect to see so many serious responses to my somewhat rhetorical question. Thanks to all of you -- including several people with whom I would normally disagree (jghedge in particular) for giving truly truly patriotic (meaning what they believe is in our country's -- and not necessarily one political position's) responses. I think you're right -- we need to start paying down the debt now to avoid serious trouble later. I can quibble over what to do when, but I wish our political leaders could see the general agreement a wildly contentious group of climbers have concerning our needed future direction.
John
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malabarista
Trad climber
Portland, OR
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Aug 16, 2011 - 03:04pm PT
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Donald Thompson Lebowski I presume?
"Since you have failed to achieve, even in the modest task that was your charge, since you have stolen my money, since you have unrepentantly betrayed my trust.I have no choice but to tell these bums to do whatever is necessary to recover their money from you,Jeffrey Lebowski. And with Brandt as my witness, I will tell you this: Any further harm visited upon Bunny, will be visited tenfold upon your head."
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Aug 16, 2011 - 03:23pm PT
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Thompson
cite your sources.
This is from the Federal Reserve (you know, those Socialistic Government Bureaucrats): Ratio of total jobs to population. The red curve is the US, the blue curve is Texas. Texas curve is lower because they've got a high birthrate and high proportion of children.
If you can see a difference in trends, please point it out.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Aug 16, 2011 - 03:29pm PT
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For those who've forgotten their Roman history
"An imbalance between rich and poor is the oldest and most fatal ailment of all republics." - Plutarch Thanks to a friend for sending this to me just today.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Aug 16, 2011 - 03:38pm PT
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Yep, more minimum wage, no benefits jobs, that's what we need.
And Donald, with a little research you might find the average Russkie did better under communism. Until Stalin stole the revolution.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Aug 16, 2011 - 03:51pm PT
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,Plutarch was no doubt refering to slavery and the increasing ratio of slaves to freemen, which was always a concern of the Roman aristocracy,for obvious reasons I'm not going to argue your assumption "no doubt".
So what about increasing numbers of workers who can't make ends meet, unemployed workers and the economic oligarchies (individuals and companies) who continue to increase their proportion of total wealth? Is this a legitimate concern for social stability? Especially as it becomes more and more apparent that the wealthy and big corporations have a disproportionate political voice?
or get out of the country Sounds like the Right Wing when I was in University "My country, love it or leave it"
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Aug 16, 2011 - 05:15pm PT
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So what about increasing numbers of workers who can't make ends meet, unemployed workers and the economic oligarchies (individuals and companies) who continue to increase their proportion of total wealth?
It's the Republican dream!
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Jorroh
climber
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Aug 16, 2011 - 05:35pm PT
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To bored to get your thoughts together to dispute the idea Donald?.... prefer just to call people names?
Wealth and political power are very concentrated in America, you can call it what the f*#k you want, but its a fact.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Aug 16, 2011 - 07:40pm PT
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former enron adviser and libs' favorite economist had this to say about europe in 2010:
"The real lesson from Europe is actually the opposite of what conservatives claim: Europe is an economic success, and that success shows that social democracy works."--Paul Krugman, New York Times, Jan. 10, 2010
so, who's right about america? hint: the same people are right about europe, too
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Aug 16, 2011 - 07:50pm PT
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Yet are they like number 4 in GDP? And a high standard of living too.
I lived in Germany for a year. They've got it figured out. In general, the focus there for almost anything is on the long term (the opposite of the US) and Germans use wise planning and efficiency to achieve long term goals.
That's so far from current US business interests which is basically what is running this great land into the ground right now. Cheap and right now, that's the 'merican way.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Aug 16, 2011 - 08:28pm PT
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bookworm, I'm trying to understand your post? You are now a social democrat?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 16, 2011 - 08:30pm PT
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All Americans are liberal democrats, by definition - your country is a liberal democracy. Some also call themselves Democrats, Republicans or even tea baggers, but that's just details. Same with those who call themselves progressives or social democrats.
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Aug 16, 2011 - 09:35pm PT
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All Americans are Conservative Republicans, by definition - our country is a free Republic. Unfortunately some are also calling themselves welfare looting scumbag leaching thieves and are confessing to being wholly anti-American: so be it.
Will you liberals lay down and die because you are to lazy to get up and work for a living?
(We hope so)
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Aug 16, 2011 - 10:01pm PT
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Unfortunately some are also calling themselves welfare looting scumbag leaching thieves and are confessing to being wholly anti-American: so be it.
Yeah, that's the nature of capitalists. Any suggestions on getting those scum to fend for themselves?
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