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kief
Trad climber
east side
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Apr 20, 2016 - 08:16am PT
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The demographics of modern European society (and also modern Japanese society) are causing grave concerns for the modern welfare state that Bernie advocates, because they're running out of active workers - and hence other peoples' money - to pay their bills.
'The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.' — Margaret Thatcher.
The truth about Sanders, as revealed in the transcript of his interview by the New York Daily News Editorial Board, is that he's just talking off the top of his head about the central issues of his campaign, including breaking up the big banks. It's all pandering and rhetoric. He's basically clueless.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 20, 2016 - 08:22am PT
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Gary, I agree that on the face of it free trade looks bad but many economists have looked
at it rather more in depth than yer average Midwestern steel worker and while free trade does
indeed suck for his ilk it is a net plus for the country as a whole AND he was gonna lose his
job anyway. If it's any consolation to him many Chinese are now faced with the same prospect!
He's basically clueless. When I used to listen to the Tom Hartman show some years ago he often had Bernie on
and it was glaringly apparent back then that he was just talking nonsense. it doesn't matter
how well intentioned you are if you're talking nonsense. He hasn't changed.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Apr 20, 2016 - 08:25am PT
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kief posted 'The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.' — Margaret Thatcher.
Ironically, Britain is cooking along 30 years later still a financial capital of the world and with a system that to most Republicans looks like a socialist hellscape.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Apr 20, 2016 - 08:28am PT
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Ironically, Britain is cooking along 30 years later still a financial capital of the world and with a system that to most Republicans looks like a socialist hellscape.
B.S.
are you or do you live in Britan HighDesertDJ?
my extended family lives there your a joke spray spray!!
equally POOR dude!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 20, 2016 - 08:28am PT
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'The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.' — Margaret Thatcher.
You could say the same thing about starting wars - the six trillion dollars spent in the ME could have funded all of Bernie's programs with enough left over for infrastructure projects and lowering the teacher / student ratio in the nation's classrooms.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 20, 2016 - 08:32am PT
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HDDJ, I agree, Britain does have draconian socialist traffic laws but economically they are
the least socialist country in Europe which is why so many young French go there to start a
business. Not only is it hellish to do so in France it is worse to make it thrive when you can
NEVER lay someone off, let alone fire them!
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Apr 20, 2016 - 08:33am PT
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Bernie's goal was to cut the differential in NY to single digits. It didn't happen despite a large voter turnout in the closed NY primary (i.e., no independents). Bernie only got about 25% of the Black vote despite support from Killer Mike, Spike Lee, Harry Belafonte, Joy-Ann Reid, etc. According to Rev Sharpton this morning on NPR, support for Hillary over Bernie is related to the fact that Trevon Martin resonates in today's Black community more than MLK. This doest really make sense to me in that Bernie respected the Black Lives Matter protestors at one of his rallies allowing them to speak, whereas, Hillary & Billary have not shown that type of respect to BLM protestors under similar circumstances.
Next week's primaries (Connecticut, Delaware, Maryland, Pennsylvania, and Rhode Island) are going to be tough. My impression is Bernie will keep the faith until, at least, after the Cali primary, if not all the way to the Wells Fargo Center in Philadelphia.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Apr 20, 2016 - 08:34am PT
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pyro posted B.S.
are you or do you live in Britan HighDesertDJ?
my extended family lives there your a joke spray spray!!
equally POOR dude!
I don't live in Britain which I guess means I lack the most recent information about their country. It does take so long for the boats to make the 3 month journey across the Atlantic. Last I checked they had a functioning democracy, the 6th largest economy in the world and a national healthcare system. I take it you have word that this has all crumbled? Do tell!
Reilly posted HDDJ, I agree, Britain does have draconian socialist traffic laws but economically they are
the least socialist country in Europe which is why so many young French go there to start a
business. Not only is it hellish to do so in France it is worse to make it thrive when you can
NEVER lay someone off, let alone fire them!
Again, what Britain has would be considered "worst case scenario" in America. France, despite the inability to fire people when you feel like it, has a thriving economy and arguably a much higher quality of life than America for most people. Lots of Americans go to Mexico for dental care, it doesn't mean America's dentists are crap.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Apr 20, 2016 - 08:41am PT
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TT, Bernie, or any candidate drawing crowds like him, can't just shut it down overnight. His backers are sending $$ and he can carry on into California in June, giving his supporters on the west coast a chance to vote for him.
The Sharpton comment...sure, might be some part of it. Also, Bill Clinton was very popular with black voters and that is carrying over. And Bernie is from Vermont, not exactly a racially-diverse region.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 20, 2016 - 08:43am PT
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France has a thriving economy? You been smoking crack with Bernie? 11% unemployment
(25% if you're under 25) is thriving? Really? They have a much worse budget balance/GDP
than us and we're not good! Oh, BTW, that 11% UE rate? That doesn't include the long term
rate of 4.4 for France so to be truthful the overall rate is more like 15%. Wow, that's great,
n'est ce pas?
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Apr 20, 2016 - 08:48am PT
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So what happens when the capitalists run out of money to steal?
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Norton
Social climber
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Apr 20, 2016 - 08:57am PT
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So what is the point of this recent back and forth?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Apr 20, 2016 - 09:06am PT
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Reilly posted France has a thriving economy? You been smoking crack with Bernie? 11% unemployment
(25% if you're under 25) is thriving? Really? They have a much worse budget balance/GDP
than us and we're not good! Oh, BTW, that 11% UE rate? That doesn't include the long term
rate of 4.4 for France so to be truthful the overall rate is more like 15%. Wow, that's great,
n'est ce pas?
Funny, they still have a larger economy than the "least socialist" country of Britain. You know, the place where it's so much better to start a business, allegedly. I'm not arguing they don't have problems, everyone has problems, but trying to make European economies sound like shitholes when they are doing better than almost everyone on Earth and provide for extremely high quality of life for their average citizens is absurd fantasy. Our unemployment rate was that high and I don't recall any conservatives saying "well, crap. I guess capitalism didn't work out after all." Most European countries are still struggling because they DIDN'T engage in the stimulus that we did. They largely went austerity and paid the price (as we eventually did).
Norton queried So what is the point of this recent back and forth?
America number wuuuuuuuuuuuuuun
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 20, 2016 - 09:16am PT
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HDDJ, you are to be commended for yer prideful intransigence, rather like Bernie. By all
measures of overall GDP Great Britain ranks above France. On a per capita basis they
are dead even. But if you want a job you'd better go to Britain - UE= 5% vs France's 15%.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Apr 20, 2016 - 09:22am PT
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TT, Bernie, or any candidate drawing crowds like him, can't just shut it down overnight. His backers are sending $$ and he can carry on into California in June, giving his supporters on the west coast a chance to vote for him.
Yes, I understand that, but I'm wondering what his strategy is going forward. Is
Bernie going to take it to the streets, run as an Independent, OR bow out gracefully while trying to influence the Clinton platform? 2 of those 3 options are high stakes with serious consequences.
I think several errors going into NY...Dr Paul Song calling Hillary a "Corporate Whore" and over reacting/misinterpreting the "Bernie's not qualified" comment, didn't help, especially going up against the powerful Clinton political machinery in NY. Now HC is bashing Bernie over Sandy Hook.
The Sharpton comment...sure, might be some part of it. Also, Bill Clinton was very popular with black voters and that is carrying over. And Bernie is from Vermont, not exactly a racially-diverse region. Ya, I know, Bill Clinton was the 1st black president.
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Norton
Social climber
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Apr 20, 2016 - 09:26am PT
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But enough of relative trivia, back to Bernie
So Bernie, who probably is as surprised and shocked as Trump to be doing so well..
will go in to the convention and watch Hillary get the nomination on the first ballot
and he will go down in American political history as an interesting character who had the courage to speak truth to power, a very good legacy
and then Hillary whomps Trump by over 10 million popular and over 120 Electoral Votes
she goes eight years, appoints some moderate SC Justices, keeps us out of wars,
yet gets nothing done legislatively thanks to the Republicans continuing to control the House
and then around 2022 or so the eventual demographics turn the House Democratic and then stuff gets done that incrementally improves the lives of the middle classes
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Apr 20, 2016 - 09:30am PT
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Reilly posted HDDJ, you are to be commended for yer prideful intransigence, rather like Bernie. By all
measures of overall GDP Great Britain ranks above France. On a per capita basis they
are dead even. But if you want a job you'd better go to Britain - UE= 5% vs France's 15%.
Again, my original argument was that Britain's system is a socialist hellscape by the standards of American conservatives and yet 30 years after Thatcher, they are still thriving and a leading world economy. Your argument is that France's economy is semantically and anecdotally not as good as Britain's which does not actually address my post. Pyro's argument is "look I has computer and maek post! u dum!"
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Apr 20, 2016 - 09:47am PT
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Bernie finger pointing and non-compromising attitude is really getting old...quickly.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 20, 2016 - 09:57am PT
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she goes eight years, appoints some moderate SC Justices, keeps us out of wars,
The total classic brainwashed sterile fools speech.
In the 2008 presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton threatened to "totally obliterate" Iran with nuclear weapons.
As Secretary of State under Obama, she participated in the overthrow of the democratic government of Honduras.
Among Clinton's biggest backers are the Israel lobby and the arms companies that fuel the violence in the Middle East.
To name just a tiny tip of the iceberg on this stoopid oligarch masqueraded phony leader of the free world of peace.
Americans are brainwashed, sterile and stooopid .....
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Apr 20, 2016 - 10:08am PT
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Bernie finger pointing and non-compromising attitude is really getting old...quickly.
Because what we desperately need is someone who'll suck up to Goldman Sachs and the rest.
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