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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Jul 14, 2009 - 10:39pm PT
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looks like the scourge have better position. They will probably win.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 14, 2009 - 10:46pm PT
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It's called "Global Climate Change"
Yeah, now it is, tell Al Gore why it changed wording....Oh the Globe is cooling now? Yeah that's it, stil fits if we call it 'Change' we can still believe in.
Heaven forbid you morons were wrong and we're looking at solar shutdown now, and hence, global cooling!
Anything to fit the agenda!
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Jul 14, 2009 - 10:49pm PT
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There is physical evidence that we now have that wasn't ever available to any other people in all of history until right now in our time --- The age of the computer, and the personal computer at that.
The good book talks about how parts of it are sealed and secret until the end. Well, these parts and secrets are now being revealed. Even in the Bible Code it mentions the importance of the computer to understand the hidden secrets.
It exists to strengthen our faith and to warn us what will soon occur.
Two resources that everyone should see or read:
The DVD, The Star of Bethlehem
http://thestarofbethlehemmovie.com/
In the good book it mentions that the stars are for signs and seasons. The stars indeed mark when Jesus was born, and the very day and hour when he died on the cross. We can now know this, using Kepler's laws and powerful software, such as "Stary Night":
http://www.amazon.com/Starry-Night-Pro-Plus-6-2/dp/B000HDFYSS/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I1PV726R94V61C&colid=2GL3DFQ4AXH2G
It is truly amazing. The stars and planets really do shout and proclaim God.
The other resource that everyone should read is Michael Drosnin's book, The Bible Code:
http://www.amazon.com/BIBLE-CODE-Michael-Drosnin/dp/B0001PIOYI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247624253&sr=8-1
We would not have figured it out and now researching it dilligently by people all over the world if it were not for a humble Jewish Mathematician, and the personal computer. What we are learning now is amazing . . .
Some quick examples from science (something I'm very interested in). These historical events are all in the Bible Code in the Jewish Old Testament written in Hebrew:
Newton, Edison, Wright Brothers, Einstein, Moon landing, Shoemacker-Levy Comet impact with Jupiter, to demonstrate just a few . . .
As a recently returned Prodigal Son Christian, I beleive and I know what it means: God exists, and he inspired his written word and he wants us to know this.
Here is a passage from Drosnin's book and in his own words pg.50-51:
'Does it prove there is a God?
For Eli Rips, the answer is yes. "The Bible code is firm scientific proof," the mathmetician states. But Rips believed in god before he found the evidence.
Many others will also say that we now have the first secular evidence of His existance. I am persuaded only that no human could have encoded the Bible in this way.
We do have the first scientific proof that some intelligence outside our own does exist, or at least did exist at the time the Bible was written.
I do not know if it is God. I only know that no human being could have encoded the Bible 3000 years ago, and accurately foretold the future.
If the Rabin assassination, the Gulf War, and the collision of a comet with Jupiter are all encoded, and they clearly are, then some intelligence very different from our own did it.
The Bible code demands that we accept what the bible can only ask us to believe --- that we are not alone.
But the code does not exist simply to announce the existence of the encoder. The Bible was encoded to sound a warning.'
If you want proof of God's existance and his plan of salvation, it is available. I would just simply ask for everyone to do so. Check it out.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 14, 2009 - 10:55pm PT
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"Anything to fit the agenda! "
You mean, most of the leading scientific organizations who are convinced that global warming is real have an "agenda"? It's this kind of armchair quarterbacking of science that drives scientists away from the Republican Party in droves.
"Agenda." You sound like Klimmer and NWO when you say that.
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dfrost7
Social climber
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Jul 14, 2009 - 10:58pm PT
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As far as reliable record of Jesus existence easier topic. There's an excellent book, The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable, by F. F. Bruce. You can read it free on Google books. There are references by Josephus, first century historian, there are those who make attempts to discredit his documentation. You should do your reading about something this important.
As far as Jesus, morality, social Jesus, superhero Jesus, my homey Jesus, "head of a religion" Jesus, those are off point.
It was never about religion. If you hate religion, you're in good company - so did he.
It was about redemption. About having a living relationship with
God.
It's not doing right to be right with Jesus. It's about doing right because you Love God. Love not about self and self-enlightenment. It's Reckless, radical, selfless, active, unconditional love. Love you throw under the bus every day. Extravagant love: God's love. Love you chose to give rather than because you "feel" it. It is
committed, strong and lavish.
As far as "seeing" God, As far as faith goes, you definitely do need to invite Him into your heart, your life, for that. He doesn't barge in because a lot of people don't want
to engage in a relationship with him.
Jesus broke all the rules. He was hated, still is, because He shook things to the foundation. Women were part of his ministering body - unheard of in any belief system.
But, he's not a system of belief, he's a relationship. Probably, why people just can't imagine why other people can't see.
Faith? Everything you and I do is by faith. We see by faith. Seal a room from any light source and you are now operating by faith that it's your friend's voice. Do you love someone? Take it out of your heart, or wherever you consider it to be, and put it on the table. It's invisible, you believe it exists. "Faith is the
substance of things hoped for."
You are correct to bust people as phonies for not stepping up to what you know they are supposed to be believing. Jesus was radical, he asked radical things. Someone strikes you, offer him the other cheek if he needs it? You have two coats, give one away, at a time clothing, as such, was traded for goods.
I think this is a very important thread, though OP should not hide and should
maybe be a little more humble (apostle?). Either way, what he/she does, can't
change who God is. Nor does whether people say they don't believe.
C.S. Lewis was an atheist. Super good read: Mere Christianity. My son was
totally an atheist. I have great love and regard for atheists. Many boldly question
where others are too afraid or complacent to. I really do care about what they think.
Rude, offensive Jesus cartoons? Can you imagine, He was taken to the
RELIGIOUS LEADERS, they blindfolded him and hit him, told him to prophecy
who hit him. Sounds like something they would do today. Do i think the
religious leaders would recognize him? Some would, some wouldn't. Do you
think anyone will notice when he comes back? The entire world will know.
There won't be a question.
There has been significant loss recently. We will be spending much more, in time, not here. This isn't about passing works from one existence to the next. People are treated deplorably because they are believed to deserve it in parts of the world.
They have to drag all their bad deeds into the next life. God reaches to us offering
forgiveness so that doesn't happen. We forgive, when we follow, not because
it makes us enlightened, but because we have been forgiven - we love becaue
He first loved us.
It's about redemption. We've all lied, cheated, been unkind, not respected our parents, desired what someone else had. Most of what we know, our personality even, is not tangible. So, faith is not only essential to live, it is how we do most things. Science is only how we, humans, strive to explain things we observe.
So, it is so much more simple than moral superiority. That is not what Christ is about. It's about a living relationship with the living God. I love the fact this topic comes alive with such passion. But, with such recent loss, it is pertinent to everything.
I didn't believe because of catastrophe. God just found me one day, and i said yes. I didn't know where it was all going to go.
I really think as serious as life and death is, that those who have gone would be so glad for such discussion.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 14, 2009 - 11:00pm PT
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You mean, most of the leading scientific organizations who are convinced that global warming is real have an "agenda"? It's this kind of armchair quarterbacking of science that drives scientists away from the Republican Party in droves.
To say these are Repub scientists is foolish....look at them.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 14, 2009 - 11:01pm PT
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My God, oops using that name in vain, what dribble!
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jul 14, 2009 - 11:14pm PT
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DIrtbag, I havenīt studied this in thirty years but when I was a philosophy of religion student in undergraduate school, no credible, mainstream historian denied that a man named Jesus Christ existed, as described in the gospels. His heritage was always much questioned but the idea that a conspiracy existed to fashion the man out of whole cloth, to simply make the guy up - this was thought to me no more viable than denying that Tiberius Claudius or Seneca had once lived on earth around the same time.
Are we talking conspiracy here, about making Jesus up? You know what that (conspiracy) means, donīt you?
JL
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 14, 2009 - 11:17pm PT
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Heh heh heh
Largo pulls one out of the hat ......
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 14, 2009 - 11:18pm PT
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if Jesus was the "Son of God" and Budha was the Son of God and Krishna and Mohammad and whoever else has their finger in the proverbial pie, does this mean that God had a whole lot of "wives?" He certainly seems to have produced a whole bunch of offspring who are seemingly "half siblings?" No?
You're right, you have no idea....read a Bible or a Tora.
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dfrost7
Social climber
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Jul 14, 2009 - 11:20pm PT
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All those guys didn't say they were the real thing. When Jesus said it, they tried to push him off a cliff - the religious leaders.
The other great leaders you mention, though some have beautiful
teachings, don't claim to restore you to the one living God. That
Nuke other people? i don't think so. There have always been leaders
who lead people, manipulate people, make it a "national" religion.
We've just lived through that again.
It isn't popular to walk away from people who want to attach Christ
to their political agenda. Plus, people trying to get you to do
things using guilt (religions and guilt mongers). Jesus took not
only the wrong on himself, he took the guilt with it. Knowing
that changes your life. Well, if you want to know him.
Cracks me up. A year or two ago, I read a thread here that said,
"who would Jesus vote for?". So don't get cranky when the subject
is brought up. I cracked up because, who would the King of Kings
vote for?
Your question about the other countries, he dealt with. He asked someone to give him a coin, Who is on this coin? Not me. Render to him what is his and to me (Jesus) what is mine. What did he want? our vote? He wanted our love. People who make it about
politics are pretty far off mark.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to write so much. I know you're just having fun.
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davidji
Social climber
CA
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Jul 14, 2009 - 11:26pm PT
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"And then all these guys say they were the one and only - you know the "real thing""
But they didn't all say that. Followers of some religions get pretty worked up about that stuff though.
Does the concept of a God-Man (Messiah, or whatever you want to call Him) who returns periodically seem so unlikely?
While it may seem unlikely to someone with no inner conviction of the existence of God, to someone who understands that God is real I'd think it would make more sense than the concept that a God-Man just came once, for one group of people long ago.
But everyone's gotta believe their own thing...
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 14, 2009 - 11:29pm PT
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Yup, and Harlem will rise again...but I ain't waitin' up nights for either to happen.
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MisterE
Trad climber
One Step Beyond!
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Jul 14, 2009 - 11:31pm PT
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 14, 2009 - 11:32pm PT
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What did he want? our vote? He wanted our love.
Many may misinterpret that. In my world, or belief system, his love meant faith in the Father. And not just that, faith. He wanted us to UNDERSTAND love and be living in his image of a perfect soul. It;s impossible of course for us to achieve that but the journey to achieve that goal is what makes God proud. To disregard that makes Him disappointed and angry.
It took me a while to see this. We all see it from birth but are lured away. Life is the struggle to find a presence with God, an attachment. We are constantly lured away from it by that vile beast.
In the end, I think God will judge us by our deeds. Dicks like Weschrist will even be forgiven as long as they live just lives in the eyes of the Lord. But if you deny his presence in the end, then where do you go?
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dfrost7
Social climber
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Jul 14, 2009 - 11:34pm PT
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... and that's what I love about Anastasia. Being kind to one another. Taking care of one another. If this community needs that
they need it now.
That's what love does at its best. I blow it every day, but my job
first, is to just love. To show what that love is like. At a time
like these days, to comfort if someone needs that. If they need
a potato salad, make one. Definitely, if someone needs more than
an email, do that.
Someone mentioned little Tyrus. There will be a need for him to
feel his dad is not forgotten. He will need the community of
men to teach him how. Know what i mean? There's a family, both
by blood, and by community, that loved someone(s) now gone.
So hard. So, they all need to be remembered and cared for. It's
our job. Our privilege.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 14, 2009 - 11:41pm PT
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Skully, I don't really hate Wes, I just just converse in terms that he understands. Is he a dick? Eh, it's just a word for blasphemy.
I don't appreciate him spitting on my religion but he'll be held accountable for that.
Do I wish him harm? No!
I pray that sometime people like he will 'see the light', in this life or in passing to the next. I like the dude, really. Seems strongminded, if not arrogant, but we all have flaws.....
May God bless you, Wes...and you too , Skully.
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MisterE
Trad climber
One Step Beyond!
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Jul 14, 2009 - 11:44pm PT
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OMG!!!666
People arguing on the internet!!??
I NEVER!!!
LA LA LA - I CAN'T HEAR YOUUUU...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 14, 2009 - 11:45pm PT
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MisteE, Jesus always hears you!!!11!!
Bwaahahaahhh!!!!
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