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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Dr. F...thanks....couldn't have said it better....Inspite of the reality that you just mentioned , there are the die-hard conservatives that will turn around and vote for more of the same corruption and incompetence that came down under Bush...What's that called when you repeat the same mistakes over and over while expecting different results...? Romney has laid it all out there for everyone to see...He's going to do exactly what Bush orchestrated and the insanity will continue.... Bluering misses the big picture with his simple black and white comeback that Obama had 2 years to solve the problem and failed...
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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What the hell is the "education deficit"?
Point well made.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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What the hell is the "education deficit"?
umm…. Yours!!!!!
It's a given that I am not the sharpest tool in the shed.. But bloweys conservatism has that non-reality bend to it, or at the very least it has the "I've got my blinders on and I will only notice what will help make my point and nothing else, no matter how related it may be"..
Me thinks that thought was too long.. parse it out if you need to blew
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jolly, go you think the GOP will "crack down' on the bank?
Obama tried and the Repugs blocked. Don't be a dupe.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Our Government is not the enemy.
The Right Wingerts are fighting the Government like it's the enemy, which is Unpatriotic and despicable in any way you look at it
Repugs are unpatriotic, I would go so far as to say down right un-American
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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But for better or worse he is not an option. Protest votes are a waste of time. So who do you think is more likely to move the Nation in a positive direction?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2012 - 02:06pm PT
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What's that called when you repeat the same mistakes over and over while expecting different results...?
QE1, then QE2, then QE3 (quantitative easing)....and eventual insolvency.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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What's that called when you repeat the same mistakes over and over while expecting different results...?
It's called Republicanism.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Just for blew….. Some key elements to the article noted above…. So you don't have to strain yourself by reading too much at one time.
But I am unaware of a well-developed theory from that time about how the super-rich and the corporations they run would secede from the nation state.
I do not mean secession by physical withdrawal from the territory of the state, although that happens from time to time—for example, Erik Prince, who was born into a fortune, is related to the even bigger Amway fortune, and made yet another fortune as CEO of the mercenary-for-hire firm Blackwater, moved his company (renamed Xe) to the United Arab Emirates in 2011. What I mean by secession is a withdrawal into enclaves, an internal immigration, whereby the rich disconnect themselves from the civic life of the nation and from any concern about its well being except as a place to extract loot.
Our plutocracy now lives like the British in colonial India: in the place and ruling it, but not of it. If one can afford private security, public safety is of no concern; if one owns a Gulfstream jet, crumbling bridges cause less apprehension—and viable public transportation doesn’t even show up on the radar screen. With private doctors on call and a chartered plane to get to the Mayo Clinic, why worry about Medicare?
To some degree the rich have always secluded themselves from the gaze of the common herd; their habit for centuries has been to send their offspring to private schools. But now this habit is exacerbated by the plutocracy’s palpable animosity towards public education and public educators, as Michael Bloomberg has demonstrated. To the extent public education “reform” is popular among billionaires and their tax-exempt foundations, one suspects it is as a lever to divert the more than $500 billion dollars in annual federal, state, and local education funding into private hands—meaning themselves and their friends. What Halliburton did for U.S. Army logistics, school privatizers will do for public education. A century ago, at least we got some attractive public libraries out of Andrew Carnegie. Noblesse oblige like Carnegie’s is presently lacking among our seceding plutocracy.
But millions of Americans who do not pay federal income taxes do pay federal payroll taxes. These taxes are regressive, and the dirty little secret is that over the last several decades they have made up a greater and greater share of federal revenues. In 1950, payroll and other federal retirement contributions constituted 10.9 percent of all federal revenues. By 2007, the last “normal” economic year before federal revenues began falling, they made up 33.9 percent. By contrast, corporate income taxes were 26.4 percent of federal revenues in 1950. By 2007 they had fallen to 14.4 percent. So who has skin in the game?
restoring Conservatism (ot)
Giant Fail
oh, look.. there's more
While there is plenty to criticize the incumbent president for, notably his broadening and deepening of President George W. Bush’s extra-constitutional surveillance state, under President Obama the overall federal tax burden has not been raised, it has been lowered. Approximately half the deficit impact of the stimulus bill was the result of tax-cut provisions. The temporary payroll-tax cut and other miscellaneous tax-cut provisions make up the rest of the cuts we have seen in the last three and a half years. Yet for the president’s heresy of advocating that billionaires who receive the bulk of their income from capital gains should pay taxes at the same rate as the rest of us, Schwarzman said this about Obama: “It’s a war. It’s like when Hitler invaded Poland in 1939.” For a hedge-fund billionaire to defend his extraordinary tax privileges vis-à-vis the rest of the citizenry in such a manner shows an extraordinary capacity to be out-of-touch. He lives in a world apart, psychologically as well as in the flesh.
This lack of skin in the game may explain why Romney has been so coy about releasing his income-tax returns. It would make sense for someone with $264 million in net worth to joke that he is “unemployed”—as if he were some jobless sheet metal worker in Youngstown—if he were really saying in code that his income stream is not a salary subject to payroll deduction. His effective rate for federal taxes, at 14 percent, is lower than that of many a wage slave.
Most present-day Americans, if they think about the historical roots of our wealth-worship at all, will say something about free markets, rugged individualism, and the Horatio Alger myth—all in a purely secular context. But perhaps the most notable 19th-century exponent of wealth as virtue and poverty as the mark of Cain was Russell Herman Conwell, a canny Baptist minister, founder of perhaps the first tabernacle large enough that it could later be called a megachurch, and author of the immensely famous “Acres of Diamonds” speech of 1890 that would make him a rich man. This is what he said:
I say that you ought to get rich, and it is your duty to get rich. … The men who get rich may be the most honest men you find in the community. Let me say here clearly … ninety-eight out of one hundred of the rich men of America are honest. That is why they are rich. That is why they are trusted with money. … I sympathize with the poor, but the number of poor who are to be sympathized with is very small. To sympathize with a man whom God has punished for his sins … is to do wrong … let us remember there is not a poor person in the United States who was not made poor by his own shortcomings.
Evidently Conwell was made of sterner stuff than the sob-sister moralizing in the Sermon on the Mount. Somewhat discordantly, though, Conwell had been drummed out of the military during the Civil War for deserting his post. For Conwell, as for the modern tax-avoiding expat billionaire, the dollar sign tends to trump Old Glory.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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What Halliburton did for U.S. Army logistics, school privatizers will do for public education.
Worth emphasizing!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2012 - 02:59pm PT
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http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/revolt-of-the-rich/
Gary, it's a unique take. It's got a bit of a "the rich suck" flavor to it. Rich people, of course, will protect their assets. And they will take every advantage afforded them, legally, in the tax-code. If they don't, they should have the book thrown at them, just like you/me.
The article comes off as class-ist, and anti-rich. Be careful of a system where wealth can be stolen from the wealthy. And one one where the ambivalent or lazy are unduly rewarded.
Most, but not all, rich people earned their money through tireless work and risk. This is why I'm not rich. I have no desire to go to those lengths, I like to stop and enjoy life. I live wihtin my means and have no desire for wealth. But that's me.
I would not deny movers and shakers of industry and innovation of their drive for wealth and success. It makes us great, and prosperous.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jingy posted a link.
You post punctuation marks.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Be careful of a system where wealth can be stolen from the wealthy.
Conversely, should we not be careful of a system where money can be stolen from the poor, the working poor or the middle class?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2012 - 03:30pm PT
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Conversely, should we not be careful of a system where money can be stolen from the poor, the working poor or the middle class?
Goes without sayin'. But you'd never admit that "your side" is doing just that, all while trying to tell you that they actually give a crap about the poor/middle class. Look at their actions! Look at the results of their policy.
How many are unemployed now? How many gave up looking for work? How many are now on food-stamps? Did that go up or down because of Obama's "leadership"?.
You can blame Repubs all day/night, but a true leader would have found solutions, he would have brought people together for solutions.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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And what exactly have your rich buddies done to help put Americans (not Chinese) back to work?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2012 - 03:41pm PT
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And what exactly have your rich buddies done to help put Americans (not Chinese) back to work?
Nothing. The house tried to pass a budget but the Senate killed it, and Obummer said he'd veto it if it did pass.
Clinton used to know how to work with the Congress.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Well then FarKook why aren't they????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? They are stuffed to the gills with cash, the stock markets are booming and still all they can do is try to discredit the President.
Tell US about that Bill Blue? Just how good would it have been for America?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Seriously Farouk we all know you are so embarrassed by the illogical nature of your chosen ideology but could you possibly go lighter on the punctuation marks? It makes you look childish.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2012 - 03:57pm PT
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Good lord, help us, do I have to explain the basics?
Business (jobs) is inherently a conservative enterprise. No money=no business. More money (capital)=business growth.
Business tax=less money. Less growth.
Corporate (business) tax in this country cannot compete with foreign markets. It has to be dropped.
Open Keystone! Drop gas (transportation/consumption) prices.
Give the markets faith in investment by restoring Federal spending/lending/printing policies.
In a word, conservatism...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!radz!!111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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I am currently doing a huge job for a wealthy liberal who would gladly may more taxes if all the 1% had to. He agrees that rMoney is a sack of crap lying bastard.
Why do you insist that the homeless are liberals? A huge part of the homeless problem is returning vets who thanks to the GOPTeabaggers can't find work. They are mostly conservatives who vote republican. So stuff your exclamation point where it deserves to be.
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