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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Jan 30, 2019 - 02:40pm PT
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^^^ Brilliant video!
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Can someone give some concrete examples of AOC's demonstrated skills in leadership?
For all of the oxygen she's sucking out of the Democrat's political world these days, I can't seem to be able to think of anything that she's done in the past that exemplifies her great potential as a leader.
Being new, young, and sparkly doesn't qualify all by itself, unless you've got the chops to go along with it. With the Right being as extreme and polarizing as it has become, the solution isn't an extreme and polarizing Left.
Maybe I've missed something in her CV. Please educate me, AOC fans.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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I think Mooses blood pressure would go down if he quit posting about AOC...?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Agreed Moose.....I think Apogee is a closet-Trump supporter and maybe even a bit racist...Idylwild is a safe haven for these types....
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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‘Non-believer’?
Well, if that means not believing in something that I have no evidence that exists, then yeah, that’s me.
But I’ve certainly started out as a non-believer, and later converted once I was ‘educated’. Bring it!
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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AOC doesn't need to win. She's already winning based on sound policy and the long term trend to progress
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Too vague for me, Flip Flop.
What are specific examples of this ‘sound policy’?
‘Long term progress’...to what?
Where has she accomplished anything like this in her political career?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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The Democrats need someone with a progressive vision, for sure. Their tendency to wallow in mediocrity, and win elections too often in spite of themselves is clearly demonstrated.
But in order to make anything actually happen, it takes a wholistic vision that is feasible to attain, and the skillset to make it happen.
So far, all I'm aware of with AOC is a few non-sequiter policy offerings that are disjointed and nowhere close to achievable, and virtually no prior political experience to implement anything.
Progressives won't like hearing this, but the attraction many on the Left have of AOC is not a lot different than the attraction many on the Right had towards Trump. They both are seen as 'outsiders', with no real political background or history to get bummed out about, they say the stuff that people want to hear (regardless of how realistic it is) and they like the idea of 'poking a thumb in the eye' of establishment politics.
Trump's d#@&%ebaggery aside, his lack of political skills have severely limited his long-lasting acheivements. The same will undoubtedly be true of AOC.
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dirtbag
climber
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What apogee says. She’s also easy on the eyes, unlike most other politicians, and let’s face it, that is a lot of her appeal.
Let’s see what she actually accomplishes after a few years in Congress.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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“Whether uninformed moral self-righteousness and charisma can overcome stunningly false facts will be a real test of how far American education has decayed.”
Seems like the Republicans have already proven that over and over.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Lovely young Bolshevik. A democratic centralist, her branch of the party, once dominant, will allow no deviancy.
Where did I see this? Maybe on ST? Russian joke after collapse of the Soviet Union:
"Everything our leaders told us about communism was wrong, and everything they told us about capitalism was correct."
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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I don't disagree that AOC is inexperienced. She's 29. She doesn't need to win. She can give voice to promote the most progressive populist causes without worrying about being realistic. Idealism is perfect for the Progressives. We can set our goals idealistically and still vote for the candidate most able to make progress politically.
The conservatives are bringing attention to progressive issues and candidates. Bigly. Take a look at Tulsi Gabbard and you can imagine how people achieve political experience and authority. I've heard similar dismissals of her but her resumé is getting thick. Bigly.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Tulsi Gabbard campaign in disarray
Her campaign manager is already set to depart and the congresswoman is under fire back home in Hawaii.
By DANIEL STRAUSS and ALEX THOMPSON 01/29/2019 05:37 PM EST
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/29/tulsi-gabbard-2020-election-1134055
Tulsi Gabbard’s presidential campaign hasn’t officially launched yet but it’s already melting down.
Two-and-a-half weeks after the Hawaii Democrat told CNN she had decided to run for the White House—an announcement that even her own staff didn't know was coming, after weeks of debating the timing of the rollout—the 37-year-old congresswoman has struggled to contain the chaos.
Campaign manager Rania Batrice and Gabbard’s consulting firm Revolution Messaging are set to depart after this weekend’s official kickoff in Hawaii, two sources familiar with the situation told POLITICO. Gabbard is leaning on her sister, Vrindavan, to fill the void.
Meanwhile, the congresswoman is under fire back home after picking a fight with Sen. Mazie Hirono (D-Hawaii), and a prominent Democratic state lawmaker is already challenging Gabbard in next year’s congressional primary. That means she faces the possibility of losing the presidential race and her House seat as well.
For years, Gabbard has been regarded as a rising star in the Democratic Party, and supporters hoped she could use a presidential bid to pressure party elites toward a non-interventionist foreign policy. But her early campaign stumbles and problems back home—where at times she’s had sky-high approval ratings—call into question whether the Hawaii lawmaker can compete on the national stage.
This ain't a great start. She's got a bit more political experience that AOC, but is it enough to compete in a national campaign? We'll see.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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I dated Hispanic girls when I first moved to Cali in the 1970s.
Coming from the Stepford Wives suburbs of white-bread South Carolina, these brown women were exotic in their hubris.
I understand the infatuation.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Ya know, Flip Flop, I could buy into what (I think) you are saying about AOC being a protagonist for progressive ideas if those ideas could be reasonably realistic and achievable.
The problem that repeats itself, though, are new & shiny politicians that speak to their extreme bases with a bunch of idealistic, unrealistic platitudes and rhetoric, then when they can't make it happen, their followers get disenchanted because they didn't get the candy coated sparkly unicorn they were promised. Those disenchanted voters stay home on election day as some kind of spite to their own Party, and the Right marches right over the top of them (and the rest of the country).
One of the marks of an experienced, capable politician is the ability to work with people you don't totally agree with (or don't agree with at all). AOC has done a remarkable job of alienating people that could very much help her accomplish her vision (whatever the hell that is).
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Are you often guided by Politico/ Capitol News Co? Because, to me, negative reporting from them is banal and ubiquitous in this yellow journalism world.
Are you saying that Medicare for All is rhetoric or a platitude? Or the tax rate for the wealthy? Or the pentagon budget?
I can see that I've pushed your buttons as your level of dialogue has tanked and you're leaning on insults and links.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Flip Flop, if you feel personally insulted, that is not at all my intention- I'm honestly not clear at all what it is I've posted that qualifies as a personal attack. I'm certain we have voted very similarly over the years (in General Elections, anyway)- we're in the same camp.
Medicare for all is a good idea...not AOC's, but worth exploring, for sure. Much as I'd like to see the kind of tax rates she's advocating, I don't think it's a realistic expectation, but is a common populist approach to gaining ears.
Edit:
And what is wrong with posting links to information sources that illustrate one's point? If you don't believe those kinds of sources, that's your prerogative, and you certainly don't have to read them. It's not an attack....it's just information.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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You apparently think that Universal Healthcare and responsible social policies are worth ridiculing as a candy coated unicorn. You don't insult me. You show your character
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Go in peace, Flip Flop.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Soak the rich? Americans say go for it
Surveys are showing overwhelming support for raising taxes on top earners.
By BEN WHITE 02/04/2019 05:15 AM EST
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/04/democrats-taxes-economy-policy-2020-1144874
The prospect of 70 percent tax rates for multimillionaires and special levies on the super-rich draw howls about creeping socialism and warnings of economic disaster in much of Washington.
But polling suggests that when it comes to soaking the rich, the American public is increasingly on board.
Surveys are showing overwhelming support for raising taxes on top earners, including a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll released Monday that found 76 percent of registered voters believe the wealthiest Americans should pay more in taxes. A recent Fox News survey showed that 70 percent of Americans favor raising taxes on those earning over $10 million — including 54 percent of Republicans.
AOC has hit a populist nerve with this one...and one that just might play a bigger role in the 2020 election. We'll see if it actually goes anywhere...I'm dubious, as the big money in this country effectively controls the country, and they & the Congress they paid for aren't going to let that kind of thing happen.
Still, this kind of rallying can have a spillover effect on getting candidates in there that support other, more do-able policies. Time will tell.
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