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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Jun 29, 2018 - 01:16pm PT
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Reilly is odious. His type broke the social contract. I imagine that any 'work' he has done is far from useful productivity and not a necessary job. I doubt it qualifies as 'work' in the true meaning
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jun 29, 2018 - 10:24pm PT
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I met Reilly and his awesome wife and had a few beers but didn't smell anything odious...? rj
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Jun 30, 2018 - 04:05pm PT
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Reilly is odious. His type broke the social contract. I imagine that any 'work' he has done is far from useful productivity and not a necessary job. I doubt it qualifies as 'work' in the true meaning
Oh my, I would love to hear your interpretations of Rousseau. In any event, it's possible to thrive in a capitalist economy without being a wage slave. Contrary to what they're teaching in PRCA nowadays, I suppose. Profits and rents, anyone? Reilly is a friggin' ST rock star, IMO.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Jul 26, 2018 - 06:33am PT
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Interesting piece, xCon. I'm NO Trump fan, but can you imagine the fawning, ecstatic press if these job #'s came out under Obama? The lowest African-American unemployment rate in many decades? Oh, the praises that would be sung. Re. actual wages: That's a sticky one. Trump's idiotic tariffs aren't going to help. That's for sure. At some point, our psychotic debt and deficit trend is going to bite us in the ass. Then we'll seem some real action.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Aug 11, 2018 - 08:31am PT
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Job opening at the Seattle airport
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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I suspect the relationship between daily hours worked and productivity varies between fields. I know from my own experience in the IT field (designing and implementing voice and data networks, and various distributed software systems), and from my wife's experience doing original scientific research (experiments at the bench, analyzing data on a computer, etc.), the findings re: no increase in productivity when working over 8 hours per day is b.s.
Perhaps this rule holds for "blue collar" jobs or anything where the person has no vested interest in the outcome of their work, where they see the boss or the company as their enemy or adversary in a negotiation. I would say that indicates the many ways that people can assert personal control to circumvent whatever external measures are put in place to manage their productivity. The "8 hour" finding perhaps shows where the natural equilibrium is between what people feel like they can sustain in their lives versus what they are asked to do. Anything more than the 8 hours and they rebel in various ways that reduces productivity.
But for anyone who is trying to invest in their own future, who has an internal drive to achieve certain goals or milestones, it is asinine to assert that more time working doesn't increase output. Whether or not that is healthy, and whether or not it's a good choice to prioritize career advances vs. other things in life are valid questions. But the idea of more time working not leading to more work output? 2+2 still equals 4 in my world.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Output means a measure of work product, i.e. a deliverable resulting from one's efforts. Pay is a totally separate subject ;)
Perhaps this accounts for the differences in perception: in regulated industries or where pay is fixed (either salary or overtime not paid but unofficially expected), and workers have no sense of their work experience enhancing their future value, then the incentive is to work as little as possible to collect the paycheck.
But if the work increases knowledge or skills that will help a person earn more money in the future, then there is an incentive to work harder to advance more quickly (both to earn more money and to enjoy a higher level job with more creativity, autonomy or self-direction, sense of fulfillment, etc.).
But not everybody wants these things... hard to generalize stuff about working conditions and what is fair when people's motivations and how they perceive their circumstances are so different. Perhaps the best bet is to qualify the subset of jobs or working environment when making generalizations.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Good point Jody but the other side of the coin is that the tax payers are subsidizing walmart and all the other big companies thru food stamps and other social safety net programs...one way to curb socialism is for the walmarts to pay better wages...I don't like subsidizing the billionaire walton family , aka corporate welfare...
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-meyerson-labor-question-20180903-story.html
The Labor Question is back, big-time. The term came into use around the turn of the 20th century; it was a shorthand way of asking: What should be done about the working class’ smoldering discontent in the wake of industrialization? The anger was palpable, made manifest in waves of worker revolts that stretched from the nationwide rail strike of 1877 through the general strikes of 1919.
Not all the battles were fought in the plants and in the streets. Progressive state legislatures in the early 20th century enacted laws setting minimum wages and limiting the hours women and children could be compelled to work; the courts routinely struck them down, and just as routinely short-circuited strikes by imposing jail sentences on strikers.
It was the New Deal, and the rise of unions that the New Deal facilitated, that rendered the Labor Question seemingly moot. In the three decades following World War II, when unions were strong and prosperity broadly shared, the term receded into the history books alongside other phrases – like, say, “slaveholder” – that evoked a dark and presumably buried side of America’s past.
For the last several decades, however, it’s the largely egalitarian spirit of the New Deal that has receded into the shadows. The economic inequality that preceded the New Deal is back with us; the Labor Question has returned.
At the core of the problem is the imbalance of economic power, which takes the form of booming profits and stagnating wages. The Financial Times recently reported that the share of company revenues going to profits is the highest in many years, which necessarily means that the share going to the main alternative destination for company revenues – employees’ pockets – has shrunk.
Nor is this a short-lived phenomenon brought about by the Republican tax cut. In 2011, the chief investment officer of JP Morgan Chase calculated that three-quarters of the long-term increase in U.S. companies’ profit margins was due to the declining share going to wages and benefits. A study last year by Simcha Barkai, an economist at the University of Chicago’s Stigler Center, found that labor’s share of the national income has dropped by 6.7% since the mid-1980s, while the share of the nation’s income going to business investment in equipment, research, new hires and the like has dropped by 7.2%. Correspondingly, the share of the nation’s income going to shareholders (the lion’s share to the very wealthy, among them the CEOs who are compensated with shares) rose by 13.5%. That shift has put American workers at a double disadvantage, as their wages and the private-sector investment that creates jobs and boosts productivity have both hit the skids.
Like slowly simmering frogs, Americans have required some time to grasp just how dire their situation has become. On Labor Day 2018, however, it’s clear that most of them now realize the need to reshuffle the power structure. A Gallup Poll released on Friday showed support for unions at 62%, the highest level in 15 years, with majority backing from every demographic group except Republicans, and even they are evenly split, 45% to 47%.
The overwhelming public support for striking teachers this spring in such red states as West Virginia, Oklahoma and Arizona was no fluke; another recent poll, this from the venerable education pollster PDK, found 73% support for teachers’ strikes, and a remarkable 78% support from parents of school-age children. The two-to-one rejection of a right-to-work law this summer by Missouri voters is further evidence of a pro-labor shift in public opinion, as are the successful unionization campaigns over the past year of such not-easily-fired workers as university teaching assistants and journalists (including those at such venerable anti-union bastions as the Chicago Tribune and the Los Angeles Times).
As was the case during the years when the Labor Question was first before the nation, the chief instrument the right relies on to diminish worker power is the courts. The Supreme Court’s decision in June in the Janus case, which was meant to reduce the membership and resources of public-sector unions, was just the latest in a string of rulings to advantage corporate and Republican interests. During the past year, however, progressives have put forth some of the most far-reaching proposals in many decades to rebalance economic clout, including bills from two Democratic senators – Massachusetts’ Elizabeth Warren and Wisconsin’s Tammy Baldwin – that would require corporations to divide their boards between representatives of workers and representatives of shareholders.
Since conservatives and business interests began pecking away at the New Deal’s handiwork in the 1970s, class conflict in America has been largely one-sided. On this Labor Day, however, it’s clear that the battle has finally been joined. The Labor Question is before us and remains to be resolved.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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My experience in managing software development for almost 20 years now is that over the long-term, there is definitely a fall off in productivity from working too many hours. 45-50/hrs is the most I think can be sustained over the long term.
I've had teams go over that for a month or two to hit important deadlines. But if you do that for too long, many people get mentally burned out. They will surf the web, etc. Or they will leave. In which case you have an even bigger productivity loss.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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I'm going to partially agree with Jody here. Some kind of two-tier minimum wage is not a bad idea. Teens working a small number of hours to earn snack/movie/gas money are probably a somewhat different class than people working 40+ hours a week trying to support a family. Not sure exactly how to implement this though.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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If employers were made to provide benefits to ALL employees then we would all be better off.
The scam of hiring two part timers to avoid paying benefits is disgraceful and every Congress,
Dem and Repub, for the last 70 years is culpable. Of course, it is a major burden for small
employers but some compromise could be worked out.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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The economy wouldn't support it and inflation would skyrocket and unemployment would go through the roof.
Why did you even have to ask such a dumb question?
But the economy can handle an elite class of parasites skimming everything off to those at the top? Got it.
Reilly, health insurance shouldn't be up to employers to provide, IMO.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Well, that’s another subject, isn’t it?
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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"But the economy can handle an elite class of parasites skimming everything off to those at the top? Got it."
Name one business you have run that can substantiate this claim. Do you know the economics of a sandwich shop? A yogurt business? An independent coffee shop?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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But the economy can handle an elite class of parasites skimming everything off to those at the top?
So we’re finally going to talk about Pareto efficiency? It’s about time!
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Name one business you have run that can substantiate this claim. Do you know the economics of a sandwich shop? A yogurt business? An independent coffee shop?
If you think a guy with a Subway shop is the elite, you've got another think coming.
Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most — that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Sep 10, 2018 - 10:33am PT
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Pretty good piece, T Hock. A lot of the pay issues vary from state to state, and, of course, senior faculty do much better than new hires. Averages can be misleading. As a community college teacher, I did pretty well and had a good amount of time off, but, historically, college teachers have had a better gig, at least most of them. Part-timers desperate for work are a different story, however. That hole is grim.
This statement seemed a bit misleading:
Some school districts offer teachers a 12-month paycheck schedule, but many don’t.
That makes summertime less like a paid vacation, and more like an unpaid furlough.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but full-time teachers get a salary, fixed for each year. Whether that is spread over 12 months or 10 doesn't change the take home pay. My school gave us the option to have 10 bigger checks or spread it out over 12, which I chose for simplicity and budgeting. So teachers aren't suddenly NOT getting paid, right? If they can't budget 10 checks vs. 12, well, time to go back to school.
Here's an article with a VERY lively comment stream on teacher pay. The graphs are a little misleading, and a lot is based on "averages," which mislead as well. Anyway, worth a read if you're into this stuff.
https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/no-public-school-teachers-are-not-underpaid
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