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John M
climber
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One needs LOTS of training to get a carry permit, btw.
Doesn't that vary from state to state? I could be wrong, but I believe Texas requires a 5 hour course. That doesn't seem like much training.
As for training people.. they would have to carry at all times for it to be effective.
consider
Fort Hood… 2009 12 dead.. 32 wounded
Navy Yard near D.C. 2013 13 dead 4 wounded.
Training obviously isn't enough. Someone also has to be armed at all times.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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One needs LOTS of training to get a carry permit, btw.
Open carry is legal without a permit in Oregon. You get funny looks at Starbucks, though. Especially from the cops having coffee.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Well guys, with the military being downsized lots of vets are joining the ranks of the unemployed. For starters, they could go reserve status and be deployed to some of the problem areas.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Especially from the cops having coffee.
you got cops go'in to starbucks? they must be overpaid.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Bad, some would argue that all teachers should carry guns. I know a lot of teachers. Not one of them thinks that is a good idea.
Guns are a main part of the problem. You think there would have been a mass stabbing today? The NRA is mostly to blame. The debate will have to go through them, defeat them. They are the enemy of a civilized society.
I'm not talking about hunting rifles and legitimate weapons for home defense. And I'm not saying I have all the answers or there's one quick fix. But we have to take the question of guns on as a nation. Now.
Blaming this on guns is akin to blaming arson on matches and military-grade large capacity gasoline containers.
Every situation has a root cause, and it's there and only there that the solution can be found. The recent murders at the party have a cause. That cause bears no relation to the causes of the 4000 other murders today all over the world. Likewise the solutions are going to be different.
New laws and legislation are enormously broad strokes that affect only those willing to follow them and to add to a compendium of millions of other laws and legislation is absurd.
The best thing I ever did was kill the Tee-vee.... I'm sure they've got everyone all whipped up into a frenzy by now.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Furthermore, it's a proven fact that untrained people are more likely to shoot themselves, or their friends, as opposed to shooting the bad guys.
maybe somebody should hand Sumner a shotgun? He's certainly spewing forth huge cornicorpulous amounts of steaming staunchy BS especially what a christian is, he should just pridefully take one for the gipper.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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THE ANSWER - WHICH HAS NEVER BEEN GIVEN A TRULY EFFECTIVE TRIAL - IS MORE GUNS. ISSUE ONE TO EVERY CITIZEN OVER THE AGE OF FIVE YEARS OLD AND MANDATE CONCEALED AND OPEN CARRY AS A CIVIC RESPONSIBILITY IN DEFENSE OF THE HOMELAND.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Yeah, but the victims all worked for the County Health Department.
I've dealt with a bunch of those guys, and not one was what I would consider to be a stable person. I don't trust these guys with guns. It's bad enough some of them drive.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Well, probably best not to go down the road of who one trusts with guns. I personally don't trust the NRA with one.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Since this thread stared, an average of 180 people have been murdered in this country. One every 39 minutes. These media events generate all this angst and yet 100's of times more people are Murdered annually, alone, semi anonymously, mourned only by family and friends.
And still, Murder is down 40% over the last 20 years.
3000 Americans a day have died from heart disease and cancer since this thread started.... so what is that like...15,000 people?
ya'all freakin over 14 make me sad... humans are not good at math and threat assessment OR RESOURCE ALLOCATION apparently.
Issue every person in the USA 5 guns (loaded) and you wouldn't even begin to touch the 10th highest cause of death in America. HOWEVER YOU WOULD BE NEARLY ON PAR WITH DROWNING...
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Dec 2, 2015 - 09:27pm PT
One needs LOTS of training to get a carry permit, btw.
Doesn't that vary from state to state? I could be wrong, but I believe Texas requires a 5 hour course. That doesn't seem like much training.
As for training people.. they would have to carry at all times for it to be effective.
consider
Fort Hood… 2009 12 dead.. 32 wounded
Navy Yard near D.C. 2013 13 dead 4 wounded.
Training obviously isn't enough. Someone also has to be armed at all times.
John, I might be wrong, but our soldiers live in a "gun free zone" Armed Security Guards came to stop the carnage.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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It would seem that of late it's been safer for vets to serve in a war zone than to come home to America.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Seem...perhaps...depending on ones abilities of perception.
Actually...not hardly..not even close to the hazards of serving on the deck of an aircraft carrier in 'preacetime' Let alone Kandahar on a daily basis.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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My favorite juxtaposition as stated by the endless spin-zone media:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/03/us/san-bernardino-shooting.html
The Obumbalator in Chief says: "The one thing we do know is that we have a pattern now of mass shootings in this country that has no parallel anywhere else in the world, and there’s some steps we could take, not to eliminate every one of these mass shootings, but to improve the odds that they don’t happen as frequently."
Soooo... WHAT can we do to "improve the odds" according to him? Of course: More gun control.
But after the reported POTUS angst, the very next paragraph says:
"California has the strictest gun laws in the nation, according to the most recent report card by the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence. It is among a handful of states that ban sale or possession of many assault weapons, including the most common models, although people who owned those firearms before they were banned are allowed to keep them. It was not known where and how the suspects obtained their weapons."
Soooo.... MORE GUN CONTROL is desperately needed! We MUST "stop the carnage."
Except that....
"California has the strictest gun laws in the nation..." and is LITERALLY the poster-child-state for what the POTUS (and now the Hillabeast) would LOVE to institute nationally.
"It was not known where and how the suspects obtained their weapons." But that pesky fact DOES NOT MATTER! What matters is that we CAN, somehow, certainly, with enough LAWS, the RIGHT LAWS, control this stuff, and we WILL "improve the odds," even though NOBODY has the foggiest causal clue WHAT drives these events.
Uh huh. Right.
Bring on Minority Report.
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John M
climber
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You are correct for Fort Hood. Thats why I said one would have to carry at all times. These things happen fairly quickly. My point was simply that training isn't enough. One has to have a weapon handy. I don't really trust most people to properly handle situations like this. Even with training. This is why I don't believe that more guns is the answer. If it were even remotely possible, banning all guns would be about the only thing that would help, and I don't believe thats possible, nor am I for it. The next thing to do is ban all semi and fully automatic weapons and only allow single shot weapons. That of course isn't going to happen. So the final thing to do is figure out why we are so violent. Thats also something that isn't going to happen anytime soon. We as humans are stuck in a vicious cycle of violence.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Mad bolter.."strictest gun control in the USA" isn't saying much. Sorta like saying slowest man a the olympics 100M sprint.
My god this whole conversation is so full of bullshit on both sides of the supposed argument that its ...
basically a comedy and a tragedy combined.
Fortunately it's a pointless issue that has almost no bearing on how 99.9 percent of Americans will die.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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"strictest gun control in the USA"
The very definition of an oxymoron.
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John M
climber
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3000 Americans a day have died from heart disease and cancer since this thread started.... so what is that like...15,000 people?
you say this as though people don't seem to care about this. Yet we do. Billions have been spent on these issues. So its a poor argument.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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YER GUNNA DIE... odds are about 10,000 to 1 a bullet will do the job....
Yeah..even in America.
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John M
climber
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I see your point now. We exaggerate the danger. I agree.
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