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chacha
Mountain climber
Fontainebleau, FRANCE
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Jan 12, 2015 - 02:01am PT
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Yes Dégaine, lots of Muslims in France condemn the act. Yesterday in France Muslims, Jews, Catholics, atheists, young people, less young people, policemen, have been walking together in the streets. 4 millions of people in the rallies. There was no hatred. And people have been applauding the policemen who fight for our security.
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chacha
Mountain climber
Fontainebleau, FRANCE
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Jan 12, 2015 - 02:05am PT
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Jan 12, 2015 - 02:17am PT
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"An Eye For An Eye, Till all The World Was Blind"
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Jan 12, 2015 - 10:08am PT
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Thanks Chacha!
I regret to say, that my first premonition was correct. Our leaders should have been there and as with so many foreign situations failed to understand the significance. Today it is in the news that John Kerry was at an international business conference in India and therefore felt he could not attend, making it clear for all the world what our priorities are.
One can only ask if there was no one else in the State Department? He defended himself by saying the American ambassador was there as though he was equal to a head of state. Another faux pas. If our president and secretary of state are unavailable, then it is usual to send the president's wife, but that didn't happen either.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jan 12, 2015 - 10:18am PT
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The President spent his day watching Football. Just like I did.
The French should take that into consideration when scheduling something like that.
( I know how he feels. I spent last weekend in Santa Barbara for a wedding that could have been scheduled for sometime after Football season, causing me to miss three of the four Playoff Games. Difference is, The President can do something about his schedule. I was more-or-less obligated to be there. )
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 12, 2015 - 10:35am PT
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jonnyrig, I don't believe there were any such opportunities. I do recall
that there were impressive gatherings in Europe to show support for us.
It is a disgrace that Kerry or Biden did not attend. I know Obama has
other priorities, apparently.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Jan 12, 2015 - 10:38am PT
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Chaz - did the wedding invite show up friday night? Probably not.
So plenty of time to setup and DVR the games then watch them last night
after you arrived back home. 3 games in 3 hours is totally do-able
with a good fast-forward function. Or am I expecting to much of
a fellow football fan?
And the O-body could have done the same on airforceone crossing the atlantic.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 12, 2015 - 10:38am PT
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The world worst terrorist the prick aszhole Netanyahu after 911 said immediately "This is good for Israel".
Then later had to backtrack his stupid mouth.
Everyone in DC in the intel community knows the real perpetrators.
The American sheep are still lost to what's happening all around them .....
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crankster
Trad climber
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Jan 12, 2015 - 11:54am PT
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^^^
"The real perpetrators"...
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jan 12, 2015 - 12:17pm PT
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It is a disgrace that Kerry or Biden did not attend. I know Obama has
other priorities, apparently. I'm sorry, but I think this is such a nonissue. Let's face it, the U.S. has been extremely vocal in support of its opposition to Muslim extremists. Witness the recent presidential speech about dealing with ISIL. The U.S. representative making an appearance is just proforma. Criticism along the lines of someone from the U.S. being there just smacks of a nonplayer trying to steal thunder for themselves. The people walking the walk are usually too busy doing that to simply talk the talk. It's going to be our military going mano a mano with these extremists, not some suit walking in a peaceful protest.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Jan 12, 2015 - 12:50pm PT
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Jan said.
Muslims in France occupy the same position as Black people in America. When they feel their culture or religion is denigrated, there's more to it than religion and a system of bad ideas. The problems in northern Ireland were also a combination of power politics and religion, yet our press always prefers to frame thing in terms of religion.
Sheesh, Jan. Of course this should be framed in terms of religion! Islam IS absolutely a system full of bad ideas. They are all right there, in the Koran. There's a bunch of bad ones in the Old Testament as well. Christians have "evolved" their religion to cherry-pick the good ones and somehow leave the bad ones out. Yes, economic deprivation is a factor, but the bigger factor is Islam itself.
The elephant in the room of course, is religion itself. All religions are man-made inventions. The only reason that Christianity is "better" then Islam is the extent that Christians have abandoned their fundamentalism to a much greater extent.
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AKDOG
Mountain climber
Anchorage, AK
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Jan 12, 2015 - 12:55pm PT
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WASHINGTON — The White House, facing a barrage of criticism for President Obama’s decision not to attend Sunday’s peace march in Paris, said on Monday that an American official with a higher profile should have been on hand for the show of solidarity.
“It’s fair to say that we should have sent someone with a higher profile to be there,” Josh Earnest, the White House spokesman, said at his daily briefing with reporters at the White House.
Asked his response to critics who say a person with more prominence than the United States ambassador to France should have attended, he said: “We agree.”
NY TIMES
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jan 12, 2015 - 01:21pm PT
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Ahhh yes, sending our top puppet would make ALL the difference!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Jan 12, 2015 - 01:48pm PT
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Does anyone here remember when the greatest fear in the U.S. was that we would be overwhelmed by Communism, a decidedly secular philosophy? There are any number of bad ideas out there that a discontented person can latch onto. In fact, many young North Africans in France used to be attracted to Communism and it was a major political party. Radical Islam is the flavor of the day for the Muslim underclass in both Muslim and non Muslim societies. Some day in the future it will be something else that we deem just as incomprehensible and frightening.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Jan 12, 2015 - 01:54pm PT
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Hey Islam, want respect?
Try separation of church and state - so other religions, and non-religions, are respected.
Respect homosexuals.
Respect women as equals.
Stop imprisoning and killing people who criticize you - and I'm not just talking about stateless terrorism, here.
Respect is earned, not entitled. Unjust ideas and actions do not deserve our respect - they require reform.
Fundy Christianity - the above goes for you, too.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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Jan 12, 2015 - 02:01pm PT
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Well, tvash, we aren't there yet with respect to gays and women as you want to pretend, and the race record in Islam is better than Christian Europe and The USA by a long shot.
And here are a couple passages from the Quran on respecting other religions.
Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.[13]
And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book, those who believe in God, in the revelation to you, and in the revelation to them, bowing in humility to God. They will not sell the Signs of God for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and God is swift in account.[14]
Show me an equivalent in the Christian holy book.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 12, 2015 - 02:04pm PT
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America should first clean up it's own act before preaching it's stupid hypocrisy to the world.
No one respects America anymore except stupid brainwashed American sheep.
America supports torture, genocide, overthrowing democratic govt's, terrorism, whole sale mechanized slaughtering of animals, unjust wars, etc etc etc.
Such hypocrites always running their stupid mouths and preaching towards the rest the world ....
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 12, 2015 - 02:44pm PT
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If anybody wants to watch Salman Rushdie on Bill Maher courtesy of
the Huffington Post:
Salman Rushdie on Bill Maher
As Rushdie said, "I have some experience with this."
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AKDOG
Mountain climber
Anchorage, AK
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Jan 12, 2015 - 02:49pm PT
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Well, tvash, we aren't there yet with respect to gays and women as you want to pretend, and the race record in Islam is better than Christian Europe and The USA by a long shot.
Lorenzo, while Christians and the western countries like USA, Germany, Canada, ect. might be fcked; name one predominantly Muslim country that is a better place to live for minorities, women and gays?
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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Jan 12, 2015 - 03:34pm PT
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Lorenzo, while Christians and the western countries like USA, Germany, Canada, ect. might be fcked; name one predominantly Muslim country that is a better place to live for minorities, women and gays?
Well, for minorities , I'd say almost every Muslim country beats the USA record.
Many Muslim countries treat women quite respectably,within the context of separation from men and modesty. Christian Spain was pretty protective of women until after WWII. There was no such thing there or in Argentina when I was a kid as a girl going out unescorted.
Gays is an area where everybody is evolving. There are gay communities in muslim countries, but until pretty recently, gays were being routinely beaten and murdered here. I lived for some years in Washington DC and is was weekend entertainment for some.
And if you want to make the comparisons, you have to include the best and the worst of both religions.
The Waffen SS officers were inducted in a religious, christian ceremony until pretty late in the war. We all know where that went.
And the Crusades and the reconquista and the colonization of the new world weren't exactly frought with religious tolerance. Twice Crusaders conquered Jerusalem and killed the Muslim men and enslaved the women. When Saladin won it back he allowed freedom of religion.
I won't even get into the record of the Christian Vlad Dracul.
The Muslims took over Jerusalem for good in about 1200 and there are still Christian holy sites there. They allowed Christian pilgrimage for almost the entire time since, except in cases of war. When the Ottomans took over Istambul they took over the Hagia Sophia, but left the other cathedrals to the Christians and they remain to this day. Same with where they conquered Bhuddist and Hindu cultures.
The Catholic Monarchs removed every vestige of the Muslim and Jewish faiths in Spain and took over every Mosque, the most famous of which is still a cathedral in Córdoba. . Even when Mozarabes and Jews converted, they were removed within 3o years or killed in the inquisition.
There are no holy sites left in Sicily or Southern Italy, once under Muslim control.
Christians don't even have a very good record with other Christians not of the Nicean persuasion. I refer you to the Albigensian Crusade and the dealings with Aryan and Coptic Christians. ( I should mention here that Ghengis Khan's mother was a Nestorian Christian. Seen any of those lately?)
There are nut cases in every religion and people who use faith as a tool for power everywhere. When you do somethingg like confusing Isil or Al Qaida and Islam it is no better than conflating the SS with Christianity.
And now Godwin's law has been invoked.
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