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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Jun 26, 2014 - 09:43am PT
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I have always believed that the best style of a multipitch first ascent involves both climbers sharing the leading.
Getting towed up fa's puts one in the "subman" category, thus diminishing that persons opinion of "best style". You gotta pay to play. Leaders are just that.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jun 26, 2014 - 09:48am PT
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Getting towed up fa's puts one in the "subman" category
"I'll be your subman anytime Mucci" quote from the blockbuster Top Rope Gun.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jun 26, 2014 - 09:58am PT
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They are known only by the climber and subject to projection by the onlooker
Only tha FA is real. Subsequent ascents r' simply projections.
There is lutz meh where that came from.
^^^just for Hawky
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jun 26, 2014 - 10:00am PT
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'Getting towed up fa's puts one in the "subman" category, thus diminishing that persons opinion of "best style". You gotta pay to play. Leaders are just that.'
I'll certainly fess up to being in the "sub man" category, mostly following (but I have done some leading) on those 90+ odd pitches... though the "getting towed" bit would be an exaggeration.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jun 26, 2014 - 10:01am PT
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"I'll make my own rules, informed about the choices of others of course?"
why the question mark?
and you get to choose those that do inform you and those that don't... which is convenient, though naturally human.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jun 26, 2014 - 10:05am PT
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Everyone's getting touchy. Herewith a visual summary of the clash of genres.
A rock.
What trad climbers see when the look at the rock.
What sport climbers see when they look at the rock.
What trad climbers see when they look at sport climbers’ vision.
What trad climbers think sport climbers do
What trad climbers see as the effects of sport climbing.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jun 26, 2014 - 10:06am PT
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But I'll cut one if I want.
Ethically, a chain saw would be prohibited in a wilderness area. Hand saws are cool.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jun 26, 2014 - 10:09am PT
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What trad climbers see
Chief Sitting Bullshit
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jun 26, 2014 - 10:18am PT
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Ed wrote: peace and love, Bob D'A
Thanks Ed...it is how a do my routes. Communal with love and peace guiding me.
Once a hippie, always a hippie.
Funny this thread reminds me of my first two years as a philosophy major and also reminds me why I changed to a science major my third year. :-)
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jun 26, 2014 - 10:24am PT
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Jebus H Bomz
climber
Peavine Basecamp
Jun 26, 2014 - 10:13am PT
You are parsing things amongst a group that is largely in agreement, Ed, and acting like you've made a point when you observe a small point of personal division from the party line you'd prefer towed. I'm sure we all mostly agree on what constitutes clean climbing, LNT, and what constitutes a proud line. Or, since you are clearly not averse to intractable arguments, you can continue to magnify the small areas of difference in the interest of a debate we can't possibly solve here. Meanwhile, we all climb in the real world. I suppose you want to be an architect of mores? I would suggest more approachable rhetoric, in that case.
From what I've read here at the Taco, I think the future of climbing is in good hands.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jun 26, 2014 - 10:55am PT
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W.L. asks:
So, um, when was the last time you went climbing, Ed? Outside of the Yosemite boundaries, too.
earlier this year, in the spring, I was climbing with a good partner we were starting to train for the fall season in Yosemite Valley. I said it was a great way to start the season, he observed "you've been climbing continuously for the last few years, what do you mean 'start of the season'?"
that was just before that same partner took a fall and hit a ledge, ending his season... two weeks later another partner took a fall on a nearby route ending his season. both injuries were serious. so for the first time in a long time this summer is a climbing hiatus for me, especially since my wife will need some help recovering from a surgery that is soon to happen. I feel I can't risk climbing in the style I've been climbing these past 40+ years, I need to be there for her.
Outside of Yosemite... quite a lot, including 15 years in the 'Gunks... but recently? I've climbed in WY, other parts of California, and in Nevada, even a little in New Mexico.
I've climbed Dingus McGee routes, and even Dingus Milktoast routes...
does this qualify me? or can you still make an argument that dismisses my opinion as myopic?
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Jun 26, 2014 - 11:00am PT
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Randizzle can judge us.
And as soon as we claim a FA anyone can judge us.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jun 26, 2014 - 11:04am PT
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Visiting a another country a few times does not make you an expert on that country. I have no doubt that Ed's climbing experiences favor the trad greatly. He is limited in his scope to pass any opinion on things he know little to nothing.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jun 26, 2014 - 11:14am PT
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Along that line of thinking, I'd have no business giving advice on being terrible in bed!
Hah! New thread.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Jun 26, 2014 - 11:17am PT
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Making sure the base area is nice and tidy is good FA style IMO.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Jun 26, 2014 - 11:27am PT
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Second that Ryan.
Manly 1st ascents should always involve pruning shears to carve a tunnel into the thorn bush to the base of pitch 1. Although gaming the aurthorities system for choosing controled burn locations to remove 'dangerous fuel loads' is the preferred method for clearing wide areas.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 26, 2014 - 11:51am PT
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does this qualify me? or can you still make an argument that dismisses my opinion as myopic?
I dunno Ed... The ethics police say they'll need more information on those Dingi characters you mentioned...
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jun 26, 2014 - 12:44pm PT
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Visiting a another country a few times does not make you an expert on that country.
No, but sometimes it doesn't take long to know whether you dig it there or you don't.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jun 26, 2014 - 12:47pm PT
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Melissa wrote: No, but sometimes it doesn't take long to know whether you dig it there or don't.
Digging it and trying to say what rules/ethics/style are best are two different things.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jun 26, 2014 - 12:53pm PT
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Do I really need to live either place and become an "expert' to know that the Norwegian government is sending, let's say, public education in better style than Afghanistan's government?
I just don't buy it that if someone finds something unethical or bad style that they have to participate avidly in that thing to be entitled to the opinion.
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