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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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One guy with guns V a gang with knives not a fair comparison is it?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Brave0
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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All very interesting. Quite frankly I think it's a huge mistake to cut spending on mental health. But maybe they'll all get medical pot cards and get the mellow munchies instead of the killer crabby's.
As to buying weapons... well, not quite all of America. Cali now requires background checks on all sales, public and private. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out. But on the other hand, their new requirements for things like microstamping are ridiculous and probably not very effective.
I thought all mass murders were fair game for discussion, but apparently we're only going to allow guns, so lets toss all the discussion of explosives and other horrendously more destructive methods out as well. Just guns, stick to guns.
I'm too lazy to research it. Any of you guys care to quote some actual numbers concerning the number of firearms owners in the U.S. vs number of accidents? What's the ratio exactly? No B.S. I'd like to know, if only for my own info. How about number of firearms owners vs crimes committed by same LEGAL owners? Got any hard numbers for me? Again, I want to know the ratio.
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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You know, this feels like a pointless discussion. Enjoy.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Already discussed the explosives issue.
It's why there are so many controls and regulations safeguarding there use.
One school bombing was all it took. Just one.
How many school SHOOTINGS have there been?
Sure you can argue that you can make your own explosives at home and so could I. I could also whip up a pretty effective grease-gun so what. The time that would take compared to just buying a firearm is why guns are the preferred tool of choice for mass killing.
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feynman
Trad climber
chossberta
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Philo, the corollary within my analogy is "universal access" to scrambling routes above hikers is a "huge problem". While obviously facetious (at least for me but maybe not for all citified lamo's), it's a way to highlight the limits of a rational choice theory based debate.
Loose rock is, at least in my part of the world, broadly available above most hiking trails, roads, and even some homes. Removing trundling facilitation tools means convincing mountain people to sacrifice aspects of a life connected to loose rock (scrambling/climbing/being) for the collective minimization of risks that appear unreasonable to uptight flatlanders (loose rock deaths and potential loose rock massacres) .
In the gun debate, the conversation doesn't go anywhere because issues of self-defence and collective-defense (both for and against weapons and their effects) are tied to very deep seated selective pressures. It is doubtful that society will homogenize on an "all" or "nothing" side because, biologically, diversity survives selection at the cost of inefficiency while homogeneity loses the long game despite localized efficiency (think gun death reduction vs. tyrannical prevention or inter-national survival).
Whether gun access is or is not the problem misses the heart of what is happening. Instead gun access tends to allow people to conflate issues of:
-individual self-defence (I'm not giving up my gun and my safety),
-rare but potentially significant collective oppression (i.e.. Ukraine, Afghanistan, Armenia...)
-the enforced individual sacrifice needed for large group benefits (i.e. British may really be safer never being able to defend themselves even though being volun-told to be expendable peon sucks)
 even one preventable death is too many,
so rational choice analysers on both sides can pick the cost-benefit formula they like most, ridiculing other formulations as narrow minded.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Hey, did you hear about the one where a student stabbed 20 others in a school? Nobody died.
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