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10b4me
Ice climber
Wishes-He-Was-In-Arizona
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Aug 14, 2013 - 10:15am PT
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Patrick, his phone was not on.
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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Aug 14, 2013 - 10:19am PT
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I wouldn't assume it would be, but the chip can be tracked.
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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Aug 14, 2013 - 10:34am PT
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I'm not sure how to explain this any clearer:
A smart phone can be tracked through the chip. The phone does not need to be on or the battery have juice at all.
A google search turns up many examples, this is one:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/07/22/nsa_can_reportedly_track_cellphones_even_when_they_re_turned_off.html
There would probably need to be court order to release phone records. Local law enfocement probably does not have the technology or legality to do it themselves, but the Feds certainly do.
It would be great to see this NSA technology used for something good, not tracking low-level drug users and dealers by the DEA.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Aug 14, 2013 - 10:43am PT
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Just claim he had calves the size of cantaloupes and I'm sure the DEA will lend a hand tracking his cell phone.
I keep clicking on this thread every couple of days hoping to hear some sort of news and am disappointed each time. I can't imagine how the family/friends must feel right now. The sense of incompleteness must be overwhelming. Thanks to you all who are close enough to actually help out with this effort and I only wish that was in the position to do the same.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Potemkin Village
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Aug 14, 2013 - 10:48am PT
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I'm not sure how to explain this any clearer... Ah, c'mon, try.
How could one track a cell phone thru the chip if it doesn't have any "juice" at all.
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PeteC
climber
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Aug 14, 2013 - 10:48am PT
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Just something I thought I'd throw out, not to widen the net but:
One concrete fact that we know is the he brought his snow gear.
Probably the best known, most aesthetic snow climb is in condition in the Mammoth Lakes area is Red Slate couloir.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 14, 2013 - 10:59am PT
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Regarding Red Slate being melted out
Well that would make it a perfect spot to get in trouble. That unfortunately is true of anywhere out there though. Doesn't take much to be in real trouble when solo.
This kind of thing is so frustrating for those who wish to help. So many possibilities and all that can be done is to go take a look if you feel up to it and have the time and resources to donate. If folks do plan to search I'd suggest coordinating with the main search effort so you are not duplicating efforts unnecessarily.
For those close to the lost it is so much more than frustrating. May all of you find some peace in your hearts.
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SalNichols
Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
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Aug 14, 2013 - 11:04am PT
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Re tracking unpowered cellphones: you just can't do it. If its off, so is the GPS. It's easy enough to prove to yourself if you doubt me. NSA has some interesting capabilities, tracking an unpowered cell phone isn't one of them.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 14, 2013 - 11:18am PT
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I agree from a organized SAR point of view. This is the worst type of search scenario. No definite area. A few vague conversations indicating interest. Vast Rugged fairly hazardous terrain even for experienced mountaineers. A person could disappear and be 10 feet from a main trail and never be found.
Yet a private individual who regularly travels in these types of areas. Who climbs and loves doing it. That person like yourself will wish to be of assistance. If they are going out there anyway it can't hurt to offer a hand and perhaps coordinate.
SO frustrating.
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Aug 14, 2013 - 11:20am PT
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Cragman, you're a pro. Analysis so far is spot on. It's time to minimize the risk to others, while still honoring Matt and his family.
Without getting too explicit - but recognizing Cragman's opinion that the search is for a body at this point - nature has a way of scattering remains to a wider area than the incident point. Randy Morgenson disappeared in the Sierra and his remains were found 5 years later by hikers.
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 14, 2013 - 11:24am PT
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HFCS -- "How could one track a cell phone thru the chip if it doesn't have any "juice" at all."
Same here as we know this is bullsh!t.
Smartphones when they are so called turned off may actually have the Tx pings still on at intervals between sleep with very little current current drain between those cycles.
This is how you can "wake up" the phone from the tower if it has the firmware capabilities within the phones hardware.
Take the battery completely out and nothing will work .....
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Aug 14, 2013 - 11:29am PT
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PeteC....I had a stellar view of Red Slate Couloir from the top of the Ritter Glacier two days ago....the lower half of the route is melted out. true, but remember when he would have seen it would have been almost a month ago. might have looked appealing then.
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mooch
Trad climber
Old Climbers' Home (Adopted)
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Aug 14, 2013 - 11:34am PT
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Crag -
Clyde, Eichorn, Dawson, Robinson and a handful of Inyo boys found Walter Starr's final resting place on the NE Face of Micael Minaret, a month after he left his camp at Ediza with limited clues. It can be daunting but search areas can be minimized and narrowed down. i have a feeling Matt is out in the Minarets.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 14, 2013 - 11:39am PT
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I think Crag is talking about organized SAR operations. Not groups of exceptionally qualified mountaineers.
I think it's hard for folks who havn't worked in a SAR organization to realize how varied your memberships abilities are. How few truly excellent competent mountaineers tend to be available.
Just because good climbers can do something fairly safely does not mean a SAR group can. Very few SAR organizations have the talent of YOSAR at hand. Even YOSAR has to slow down and be careful based on their less capable members I'd suspect. Just the need for clear communication can slow things down when enough folks are involved.
Reminds me of a question Honnold was asking Tom this summer...What would be easy for him.. not so easy for an organization.
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Deekaid
climber
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Aug 14, 2013 - 11:46am PT
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there has to be something to searching/ being found by air or it wouldn't be in every survival manual known to man especially what Tom Cochrane is talking about
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two0nine
Mountain climber
Far Away, CA
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Aug 14, 2013 - 12:07pm PT
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Don't let egos get in the way- "If I didn't find him no one else will be able to" is the tone I'm picking up.
HD aerial search should absolutely be supported.
Flying over the mountains can be dangerous, but with this technology the pilot will not be buzzing canyons. How one can say this is much more dangerous that having groups of climbers in treacherous terrain is beyond me.
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Aug 14, 2013 - 01:18pm PT
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No amount of discussion on ST is going to get a formal air SAR initiated. Not for someone missing as long as Matt. Cragman spent 3 hard days on the ground searching. I' m trusting his advice.
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Aug 14, 2013 - 01:40pm PT
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From Facebook today:
"For those that saw the post by Tom Cochrane regarding doing professional HD Video capture in-flight for later review - I believe this is happening today with Tony (one of the team out in CA) tagging along to advise where to go. Very good news!
Ed from SkyTime also went all over the place yesterday w/ the doors off his helicopter and some expert eyes for another 2 hours, however did not uncover anything.
Lastly, I know some people have asked how to submit donations "offline". Donations can be mailed to PO Box 315, Northampton, PA 18067. I will try to thank everyone on the regular fundraiser page so please specify if you wish to remain anonymous."
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Brian
climber
California
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Aug 14, 2013 - 06:58pm PT
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I just got back into town from a month on the road, and I've not been on Supertopo for weeks before that for a variety of reasons. But felt compelled to comment here given the amount of time I spend in the Sierra:
Many thanks to Dean, Doug, and all the other people who regularly put aside their time, money, energy (physical and emotional), and often safety to try and help others through work on SAR and similar efforts.
Brian
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Aug 14, 2013 - 09:26pm PT
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Ron...Owning SOE makes you biased towards flight..Good luck Cragman...RJ
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