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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Mar 23, 2015 - 09:02pm PT
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The insurance companies will disappear when the loud-mouth dupes on supertopo stop parroting Fox news and become responsible Americans...
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crankster
Trad climber
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Jun 25, 2015 - 07:13am PT
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A big win today by SCOTUS
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jun 25, 2015 - 07:20am PT
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6-3
America Wins
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Jun 25, 2015 - 07:22am PT
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Glad that's settled...
for now.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 25, 2015 - 08:05am PT
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The republicans win, too. WTF would they have done if they had won the case? Most of the folks who would've lost coverage live in swing areas that republicans cannot afford to lose.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 25, 2015 - 08:49am PT
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Screw all them vegetables. NUTHIN' is better than a tender young moose.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jun 25, 2015 - 08:58am PT
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Now the GOP now has something to gripe about, whereas if the ACA were gutted, they'd be scurrying.
But don't be fooled, the game is set and once again the corporations win.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 25, 2015 - 09:02am PT
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Dood, I don't opine unless I've done the time. A cow is prime but they don't give out too
many cow permits. Bulls, not as old as YOU, are still ok although they're better turned
into sausage and burgers.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Jun 25, 2015 - 09:06am PT
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K - Man, & Dirtbag for the win!
It was just playing for the
Look of doing something,
then the insiders could see what would be, and as dirtbag points out, that it would change the next election cycle.
This way the demanded - 'hate it' slogan can again be waved,
and used to win over the fools, - foxites, - who need the safety net The most.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Jun 25, 2015 - 09:09am PT
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NUTHIN' is better than a tender young moose.
pretty sure you got nuttin' to worry about there moose
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 25, 2015 - 09:32am PT
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"6-3
Insurance Companies Win"
Fixed that for ya.
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Norton
Social climber
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Jun 25, 2015 - 09:38am PT
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"6-3
over ten million Americans win
win by the Supreme Court denying the Republicans who sought to take their healthcare away from them
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 25, 2015 - 12:47pm PT
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Even the Supreme Court likes Obamacare (well two thirds anyway).
Who doesn't and what are their reasons? Interesting story there.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 25, 2015 - 12:58pm PT
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Good luck finding reasons that aren't slathered with horse sh#t.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 25, 2015 - 01:26pm PT
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"Who doesn't and what are their reasons?"
Uncountable polititard threads on the subject, and you really have to ask that question?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 25, 2015 - 03:16pm PT
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Good luck finding reasons that aren't slathered with horse sh#t.
How about these?
* For the first time in American history, it forced all Americans to purchase a product, whether they wanted/valued it or not.
* As the basis for the above, it put the feds firmly in bed with giant insurance companies (a great irony for the demoncrats, since usually it is the rebumblecons who live to pander to giant corporations).
* It didn't really "provide access to health insurance," since everybody already had access to health insurance; the issue was (and still is) cost.
* It didn't make heath insurance "affordable" for vast swaths of Americans, as it actually (and in many cases significantly) raised rates. And for those people getting subsidies and reduced rates, they are only now finding out that if you have "coverage" with a $6,000 deductible, you are not really insured after all. Now you're just paying premiums PLUS the costs of your own health care. These people are the very ones who STILL can't afford to go to the doctor, because until they hit the deductible they are STILL paying out of pocket. So now, millions of people "have health insurance" that really isn't. This very year they are tumbling to that fact.
* It provided a no-loss guarantee to the insurance companies without correspondingly capping their profits, backed by the American taxpayers over and above the "risk distribution" inherent in the new approach to raising the rates of many in order to pay for the premiums of the few. Obumblecare was WIN/WIN for the insurance companies and virtually nobody else. Insurance companies lobbied hard for Obumblecare, and with good reason (for them).
* It was solidified in place at its first SCOTUS challenge via the swing vote of Roberts who asked (and by his vote, answered) the fateful question: "If government can do this, then what can government not do?" Given that question and Roberts' "conservative" leanings, one would have expected him to answer: "No, government cannot just call this a 'tax' and get on with it!" But Roberts instead answered with his vote: "Government can do ANYTHING." LOL... what's not to like about that totality of federal power?
I really could go on and on. There's lots of non-horsesh|t reasons to not like Obumblecare.
But the most pressing reason is that there were SO much better alternatives that the demoncrats could not be bothered to seek out in their rush toward the biggest expansion of federal power in decades. Such as....
* Force all health insurance companies to become non-profits, and require them to submit to biennial audits proving same.
* Force all health-care providers (hospitals, pharmacies, etc.) to become non-profits and audit them the same as the insurance companies.
* Force all drug and health-care product providers to become non-profits, audit them as above, and require them to closely tie their product pricing to actual R&D and manufacturing costs. It's outrageous for a one-use syringe to cost the patient $500!
* Require doctors to prescribe the generic equivalent of drugs whenever those are available, and totally change drug patent laws to make the patent term exceedingly low, such as five years.
* Get doctors out of bed with the drug companies, requiring doctors to prove on their tax returns that they receive NO financial reimbursement nor "favors" for "recommending" patent-drugs to their patients. In short, insist that doctors MAY NOT profit in any way from their choices of health care provided to their patients.
* Eliminate direct marketing of drugs to people via advertisements, etc. The whole "ask your doctor" line is outrageous, particularly when the doctor being asked is probably about to recommend the drug anyway and get his/her kickback.
Again, I could go on and on, and there are certainly countless tweaks and additions to my quickly-suggested list.
But, no! We had to RUSH to pass a law that (infamously) we didn't even know what it SAID or what its implications were. Obumblecare was not "healthcare reform!" It REFORMED nothing. It just rearranged risk/costs and handed the insurance companies a WINDFALL guaranteed market with NO possible downside!
Now it's political suicide for REAL reforms to ever take place, because even the nutless rebumblecons won't touch Obumblecare, because that would be perceived as "taking away health care" from millions.
So, the core thing to not like about Obumblecare is that it was a hack job that doesn't really address ANY of the problems with health care in this country, first and foremost being that it costs FAR too much and FAR more than it COULD. Obumblecare actually solidified the greedy, for-profit, big corporation approach to health care at all levels, while guaranteeing a captive market for giant insurance companies and exactly zero accountability.
What's NOT to love?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 25, 2015 - 03:17pm PT
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"For the first time in American history, it forced all Americans to take personal responsibility for their healthcare."
Fixed that for ya.
"* Force all health insurance companies to become non-profits, and require them to submit to biannual audits proving same."
Ummm, did you hear about how Anthem/Blue Cross recently lost it's non-profit status, due to revenues being too high?
Yep, they lost their non-profit status. As in, they've had it for a long time, and due to obscenely high profits, they lost it.
We can probably agree that the insurance industry was the big winner with the ACA, but nonetheless, healthcare & insurance remains a for profit enterprise in the US, just like you Republicans (or Independents, or whatever ideology you align with) like everything to be. What's not to like?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 25, 2015 - 03:23pm PT
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"For the first time in American history, it forced all Americans to take personal responsibility for their healthcare."
If only that were true. Actually it forced many tens of millions of Americans who were ALREADY doing that to then ADD ON the responsibility of millions who WERE NOT being responsible for it before.
Obumblecare didn't make "the poor" suddenly responsible. It forced the many to PAY FOR them in yet another expansive social program.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 25, 2015 - 03:29pm PT
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We can probably agree that the insurance industry was the big winner with the ACA, but nonetheless, healthcare & insurance remains a for profit enterprise in the US, just like you Republicans (or Independents, or whatever ideology you align with) like everything to be. What's not to like?
What's not to like is that certain sectors of "providers" are properly pulled under the "public interest" (and hence anti-trust) branch of regulation. Just as air traffic controllers cannot effectively strike, insurance companies and all other layers of the health-care industry should be disallowed from being publicly-traded, for-profit enterprises.
They so fundamentally serve the public interest that they should be regulated to ensure (and with frequent audits) that they do in fact do so.
Obumblecare accomplished NOTHING in this regard.
The "horsesh|t" comment was what I was responding to, and the fact that YOU can agree that "the insurance industry was the big winner with the ACA," is one of the two big non-horsesh|t reasons to not like Obumblecare.
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