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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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Jun 18, 2013 - 12:20pm PT
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jun 18, 2013 - 12:37pm PT
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Obama bristles at suggestion he's shifted on snooping lol
http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/17/politics/obama-nsa-interview/?sr=google_news&google_editors_picks=true
(CNN) -- Critics who have compared President Barack Obama's stance on government surveillance to that of hawkish former Vice President Dick Cheney are missing his insistence on proper systematic balances, Obama said in an interview that aired Monday.
Defending at length the recently revealed government programs that gather information about phone calls and Internet usage, Obama said his focus has always been on allowing information to be gathered while ensuring necessary oversight.
"Some people say, 'Well, you know, Obama was this raving liberal before. Now he's, you know, Dick Cheney.'" Obama told PBS' Charlie Rose. "Dick Cheney sometimes says, 'Yeah, you know? He took it all lock, stock, and barrel.' My concern has always been not that we shouldn't do intelligence gathering to prevent terrorism, but rather are we setting up a system of checks and balances?"
Cheney defends NSA, calls Obama's credibility 'nonexistent'
Snowden: Hong Kong easiest answer
Edward Snowden: Hide and seek
Is the NSA leaker a spy?
Apple discloses data request numbers
Obama's administration has faced a litany of questions since the disclosure of government programs that allow the National Security Agency to collect millions of records from U.S. telecommunications firms and Internet companies in the name of preventing terrorism. The source of the information, former CIA employee Edward Snowden, said he was moved to leak the top-secret documents because he felt the government was far overreaching its constitutional bounds in collecting the data.
But Obama argued in the interview on Monday that the system in place includes steps to prevent Americans' rights against unlawful search and seizure from being violated.
"What I can say unequivocally is that if you are a U.S. person, the NSA cannot listen to your telephone calls, and the NSA cannot target your e-mails," Obama said.
Snowden claims online Obama expanded 'abusive' security
"On this telephone program, you've got a federal court with independent federal judges overseeing the entire program," the president continued. "And you've got Congress overseeing the program, not just the intelligence committee and not just the judiciary committee, but all of Congress had available to it before the last reauthorization exactly how this program works."
Some members of Congress, including Senate Intelligence Committee members Jay Rockefeller and Susan Collins, have questioned the notion they were given proper briefings on the NSA's program, however, and many lawmakers have said they first learned of the programs when they were revealed in news reports two weeks ago.
CNN poll: Obama numbers plunge into generation gap
**Asked in the interview whether the NSA's process should be more open, Obama said, "It is transparent. That's why we set up the FISA court."
That body, however, operates in secret, and its locations are considered classified. It has approved the vast majority of the requests it has received for warrants, though those orders are also kept secret.**
An administration official said Monday that Obama had asked his intelligence chief James Clapper to determine whether additional information about the data collection programs can be made public, part of what the official described as a "broader effort the president is undertaking to have a dialogue on protecting privacy in the digital age."
The swirling debate is grist for a "national conversation" about privacy and national security, Obama said.
"Not only about these two programs, but also the general problem of data, big data sets, because this is not going to be restricted to government entities," he said.
see the bold stuff....how do you have a "transparent process" when it is classified? thats a new one.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 18, 2013 - 01:27pm PT
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CNN is the intelligent agencies MSM news front.
It's infiltrated completely by the intelligence agencies on what to report.
Nobody believes anything CNN says except idiots ......
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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Jun 18, 2013 - 02:32pm PT
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At least we have 100% security. Obama likes listening to my sexy time talk with the wife when I am away on business trips and I am OK with that lol
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Jun 18, 2013 - 10:56pm PT
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Edward Snowden is a traitor to the United States and should be treated as such.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jun 19, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
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Edward Snowden is a traitor to the United States and should be treated as such.
Curious as to your opinion on Dick Cheney, W, Rumsfeld, and Libby.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Jun 19, 2013 - 03:45pm PT
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The dude ditched his pole artist girlfriend and went to China with a Rubik's Cube and we're supposed to take him seriously?
The Rubik's Cube is too funny. Reminds me of the DaVinci Code.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jun 19, 2013 - 03:56pm PT
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Question:
Given the enormity of what you are facing now in terms of repercussions, can you describe the exact moment when you knew you absolutely were going to do this, no matter the fallout, and what it now feels like to be living in a post-revelation world? Or was it a series of moments that culminated in action? I think it might help other people contemplating becoming whistleblowers if they knew what the ah-ha moment was like. Again, thanks for your courage and heroism.
Snowden's answer:
I imagine everyone's experience is different, but for me, there was no single moment. It was seeing a continuing litany of lies from senior officials to Congress - and therefore the American people - and the realization that that Congress, specifically the Gang of Eight, wholly supported the lies that compelled me to act. Seeing someone in the position of James Clapper - the Director of National Intelligence - baldly lying to the public without repercussion is the evidence of a subverted democracy. The consent of the governed is not consent if it is not informed.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jun 19, 2013 - 03:57pm PT
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Questions:
1) Why did you choose Hong Kong to go to and then tell them about US hacking on their research facilities and universities?
2) How many sets of the documents you disclosed did you make, and how many different people have them? If anything happens to you, do they still exist?
Snowden's answer:
1) First, the US Government, just as they did with other whistleblowers, immediately and predictably destroyed any possibility of a fair trial at home, openly declaring me guilty of treason and that the disclosure of secret, criminal, and even unconstitutional acts is an unforgivable crime. That's not justice, and it would be foolish to volunteer yourself to it if you can do more good outside of prison than in it.
Second, let's be clear: I did not reveal any US operations against legitimate military targets. I pointed out where the NSA has hacked civilian infrastructure such as universities, hospitals, and private businesses because it is dangerous. These nakedly, aggressively criminal acts are wrong no matter the target. Not only that, when NSA makes a technical mistake during an exploitation operation, critical systems crash. Congress hasn't declared war on the countries - the majority of them are our allies - but without asking for public permission, NSA is running network operations against them that affect millions of innocent people. And for what? So we can have secret access to a computer in a country we're not even fighting? So we can potentially reveal a potential terrorist with the potential to kill fewer Americans than our own Police? No, the public needs to know the kinds of things a government does in its name, or the "consent of the governed" is meaningless.
2) All I can say right now is the US Government is not going to be able to cover this up by jailing or murdering me. Truth is coming, and it cannot be stopped.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jun 19, 2013 - 04:33pm PT
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Worth repeating, especially in the face of those who are saying Snowden is a traitor:
Seeing someone in the position of James Clapper - the Director of National Intelligence - baldly lying to the public without repercussion is the evidence of a subverted democracy.
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Sparky
Trad climber
vagabond movin on
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Jun 19, 2013 - 04:41pm PT
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Where Uncle Sam Ought to Be Snooping
Let’s place private corporations with government contracts under surveillance — to make sure no one is getting rich off our tax dollars.
By Sam Pizzigati
Only 23 percent of Americans, says a new Reuters poll, consider former National Security Agency employee Edward Snowden a “traitor” for blowing the whistle on the federal government’s massive surveillance of the nation’s telecom system.
Booz Allen: leveraging the public purse for private gain.
Many Americans, the poll data suggest, clearly do find the idea of government agents snooping through their phone calls and emails a good bit unnerving.
But Americans have more on the surveillance front to worry about than overzealous government agents. Government personnel aren’t actually doing the snooping the 29-year-old Snowden revealed. NSA officials have contracted this snooping out — to private corporate contractors.
These surveillance contracts, in turn, are making contractor executives exceedingly rich. And none have profited personally more than the power suits who run Booz Allen Hamilton and the private equity Carlyle Group.
Whistle-blower Snowden did his snooping as a Booz Allen employee. Booz Allen, overall, has had tens of thousands of employees doing intelligence work for the federal government.
Booz Allen alumni also populate the highest echelons of America’s intelligence apparatus — and vice versa. The Obama administration’s top intelligence official, James Clapper, just happens to be a former Booz Allen exec. The George W. Bush intelligence chief, John McConnell, now serves as the Booz Allen vice chair.
All these revolving doors open up into enormously lucrative worlds. In their 2010 fiscal year, the top five Booz Allen execs together pocketed just under $20 million. They averaged 23 times what members of Congress take home.
In fiscal 2010, the top five Booz Allen execs took home just under $20 million.
But the real windfalls are flowing to top execs at the Carlyle Group, Booz Allen’s parent company since 2008. In 2011, Carlyle’s top three power suits shared a combined payday over $400 million.
More windfalls will be arriving soon. Carlyle paid $2.54 billion to buy up Booz Allen. Analysts are now expecting that Carlyle’s ultimate return on the acquisition will triple the private equity giant’s initial cash outlay.
What do all these mega millions have to do with the massive surveillance that Edward Snowden has so dramatically exposed? Washington power players, from the President on down, are insisting that this surveillance has one and only one purpose: keeping Americans safe from terrorism.
But who can put much faith in these earnest assurances when other motives — financial motives — so clearly seem at play?
Corporate execs at firms like Booz Allen and the Carlyle Group are making fortunes doing “systematic snooping” for the government. These execs have a vested self-interest in pumping up demand for their snooping services — and they’re indeed, the Washington Post reported last week, pumping away.
This past April, the Post notes, Booz Allen established a new 1,500-employee division “aimed at creating new products that clients (read: government agencies) don’t know they need yet.” This new division is developing “social media analytics” that can anticipate the latest “cyber threat.”
Private contractors like Booz Allen have a vested self-interest in pumping up demand for their snooping services.
In other words, this new unit will be figuring out how to get the federal government to pay up even more for investigating who we “like” on Facebook.
In one sense, none of this should surprise us. Corporate executives — particularly in the defense industry — have been enriching themselves off government contracts for years. Post-9/11 political dynamics have only turbocharged that process. America now sports, as Pulitzer Prize-winning analyst David Rohde observed last week, a “secrecy industrial complex.”
Do the Snowden revelations have the potential to upset Corporate America’s long-running government contracting gravy train? Maybe, but only if anger over the revelations translates into real changes that keep private corporate contractors from getting rich off tax dollars.
What might these changes entail? The Affordable Care Act enacted in 2010 — Obamacare — suggests one initial step. Under this new legislation, private health insurance companies can no longer deduct off their corporate income taxes any compensation over $500,000 that they pay their top executives.
A more potent antidote to contracting windfalls would be simply denying government contracts to corporations that overcompensate their top execs, a course of action U.S. senator Hugo Black from Alabama, later a noted Supreme Court justice, proposed back in the early years of the Great Depression.
How might this approach work today? The President of the United States makes about 25 times the compensation of the lowest-paid federal employee. We could apply that standard to federal contracting and deny our tax dollars to companies that pay their top execs over 25 times what any of their workers are making.
Protecting privacy in a dangerous world will never be easy. But we’ll never have even a shot at protecting privacy until we take the profit out of violating it. Ending windfalls for contractors would be the logical place to start.
http://toomuchonline.org/where-uncle-sam-ought-to-be-snooping/
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jun 19, 2013 - 04:50pm PT
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If we could have a national sales tax and do away with the IRS, and force all of its employees into finding private sector jobs, I am willing to put up with the NSA snooping on my e-mails.
If I knew beyond any shadow of a doubt that snooping on everyone's e-mails and phone calls would prevent a single innocent person from dying in a terrorist attack, then I would be all right with it.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jun 20, 2013 - 12:54pm PT
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Slightly OT, but has anybody seen the shitstorm that Democracy Now is breaking on Flight 800?
Yeowza!
... Obama added: "If people can't trust the executive branch, but also don't trust Congress and don't trust federal judges ... then we're going to have some problems here."
Gosh sir, We the People have now learned that all three branches of government have furtively conspired for seven years to violate our privacy — so, no, we don't trust any of them. And, yes, that is a biiiiiiig problem.
© 2013 Jim Hightower
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J man
Trad climber
morgan hill
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Jun 20, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
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American reporter feeling big brothers eye watching
http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2013/06/19/living-in-fear-welcome-to-fascist-america/?singlepage=true
It’s a fear. You don’t really cower under the desk.
But its a nagging fear, a trepidation.
Something that never goes away. Obama is watching you, monitoring
whatever you do.
If you make a mistake, you will pay for it. Eventually. Some day.
Your future is bleak.
Basically, you are being silenced. Everyone is. Purposefully or not, they are trying to shut you down and shut you up.
They say they’re not, but they are.
They say they don’t believe they are, but they are.
They have protective password mechanisms in place, but who has access? Someday your enemies will.
We have to rely on the beneficence of our overseers, but only a fool should rest easy.
How can we believe in anything? Everything is too big. We are just cogs in
the big wheel of the surveillence state.
And here’s the big problem: it’s only getting worse as every little
detail is being recorded into the searchable database.
So live in fear. There is a Bad Santa watching you. And he decides if
you've been bad or good.
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J man
Trad climber
morgan hill
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Jun 20, 2013 - 04:01pm PT
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