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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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A very long awaited one at that. The more folks come out and tell their stories, the more this dude, LA, is looking like one sorry mean ass destructive dude to anyone that turned their backs on him, his "win at all any cost" antics and threatened to tell the truth.
1) Stories is probably exactly what they are.
2) The idea that "stories" should negate 500+ clean blood tests is absurd.
3) Even if LA is guilty of blood doping, stripping him of his 7 TDF titles and giving them to other TDF riders who were also doping makes absolutely no sense. That would do absolutely nothing to improve the credibility of the sport.
Curt
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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It is apparent that neither you Ken nor healyje, personally experience nor partook in these types of strict operations. Thus your inability to comprehend and understand this philosophy.
Strict operations? compared with what I'm used to, you were involved with the sloppiest operations imaginable. Put it this way, 90% of the time, you are practicing and prancing to get ready for the real thing. 100% of the time, I'm doing the real thing. so you have about a 10% appreciation for what I do. Get off the high horse.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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This most recent event when LA was getting his ass handed to him by his far stronger team mate and LA insisted that he cease doing so. This photo says it all the TDF after that event occurred...
Are you dense?
Cycling racing teams are ALSO heirarchies, just like the military. And just like there, people have roles to fill. Most of the riders are NOT there to win races, they are there to facilitate the leaders doing that.
They are paid to do that.
You cite an example of a rider not doing their job and being disciplined, as an example of someone being unstable.
Well, gosh, that would mean that a Chief disciplining a sailor for not doing their job on a team would be unstable too....YOU would be an EXPERT on instability, it seems!
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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If anyone really reads why the USJD investigation was dropped, they will find out that all potentially incriminating incidents occurred on foreign non-US soil. Thus their jurisdiction was totally invalid and any charges brought on would not fly in any US Court.
Chief, is your argument so weak that you have to make up lies?
You obviously have no experience with the legal system. The US Dept of Justice does not empanel a Grand Jury, then issue subpoenas and take testimony on a situation in which they have no jurisdiction.
Are you kidding?
Of course, you know far more than CNN:
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/02/03/sport/lance-armstrong/index.html
Prosecutors called witnesses to a federal grand jury in Los Angeles as they investigated the case, but they apparently determined that they lacked evidence to bring a charge.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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CURT: Ah, via your ref, please show where it clearly states "WHY" the USDJ/FDA dropped their investigation.
You can't. They never officially stated why it was dropped.
But YOU definitively stated why!
You can't have it both ways.
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WBraun
climber
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Federal prosecutors dropped their doping charges against Armstrong just before the USADA filed its charges.
It is possible that the U.S. government dropped its criminal case in order to continue prosecution through the anti-doping agency, which is not governed by the same rules of law.
Although the agency is listed as a nonprofit organization, it receives 74 percent of its funding from the government and 26 percent from the U.S. Olympic Committee.
Unlike what federal prosecutors would face in court, the anti-doping agency doesn't have to show the accused the evidence it will have to defend itself against.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Riley,
This is why:
"Yesterday afternoon, the Associated Press published the first story detailing the contents of The Secret Race, the highly anticipated Lance Armstrong tell-all written by former U.S. Postal Service teammate Tyler Hamilton and longtime Outside contributing editor Daniel Coyle."
So the "objective" story that you posted was published by a magazine with a HUGE conflict of interest, and starts off by describing how OBJECTIVE readers found it a retread of Hamilton's charges.....then goes on to hype the book shamelessly.
c'mon.
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steve shea
climber
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Any cycling enthusiasts who follow this stuff know about Levi's involvement? Did Levi cave or stay clean.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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This is a new medical record , a 10 day erection for Lance.....Talk about doping...! Somebody better come clean about abusing the ED medications...RJ
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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This is the first inside story I know of concerning how easily athletes beat dope testing and what they do to accomplish this goal.
You have to wonder how,
after having been indoctrinated and trained in all the techniques by the best dope test scofflaw of all time,
the tattlers managed to get caught by failing their tests.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Ken my friend - You are at a disadvantage.
I don't think you have read all the articles and I am wondering if you have even read one of them? You are to smart to have these opinions and have read those articles.
An objective writer actually wrote that, although some writers and media outlets have played this down as a sort of retread, it is anything but that, and is instead a very honest detailed description of the day to day cheating, and how it was done over many years, unlike anything we have seen before.
But I don't take his word for it - the anecdotes, stories and facts from the story are a little mind blowing. It tells me for the first time how cheaters across all sports have so easily beat these tests for years.
How Marian Jones, Flo Jo, and Karl Lewis never tested positive as well as an endless line of other lying and arrogant cheaters.
One of the most remarkable tales of Armstrong is that the level of fraud and collusion was so high, between LA and the UCI, that Armstrong actually called the UCI on his own teammates and other riders if he felt they were challenging his empire.
Armstrong is one sick f*#k.
And yes - I cant stand bullies
Which all assumes that what is written is correct.
Note how you have been swayed by the character assassination of LA....your last paragraph demonstrates that your hatred colors your view.
But I did read the articles. In fact, the specific one that you singled out that I was referring to, written by the EDITOR of Outside, which is basically a publicity piece on the book.
I note that you don't disclose that the co-author has written 3 OTHER books on LA, also attacks. Perfect match for Hamilton, I'd say.
You might consider, if the issue of the drug stuff is so cut and dried, why all the dredging to smear every aspect of LA's life? I mean everything, including marriages?
It has the feel of a campaign that was orchestrated on the premise of "do what we say, or we will ruin your life."
Is this Russian Putin bringing the hammer down on Khodorkovsky?
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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^I believe I mentioned this before:
V E N D E T T A
Tour de Taco?
As long as we're wondering about things. Why is it we can tell there have
been 1,809,570 posts, but we can't see how many topics (threads) there are?
Was also wondering, does anybody know this guy?
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saa
climber
not much of a
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Somebody put Lance Armstrong on a rope. Come on: Dean, Alex, Hans, another?
And Kenny, perhaps another speaker at Facelift. It s a little late yes.
But admit that LA sleeping one week at Camp 4 would be, eeeeerrr, historical?
Sunbeam
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Well, so you guys think things get interesting on this forum...
Jonathon Vaughters, in the Clinic(doping discussions) forum on Cyclingnews basically admitted that several of his current Garmin team riders previously doped while at USPS. If he is willing to do that, actually naming riders and friends, and in one case giving some details, I can only guess that there is a lot of doping details that are going to come out real soon, and he was just trying to get ahead of it.
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Kalimon
Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
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Nah, I hate the guy...true... But it's because I see him for what he is...
Inferiority complex?
Listen dude, did you ever study the history of cycling and PE? Strychnine, cocaine, alcohol, caffeine, speed . . . its all been done before, long before the man you despise was even born! Get off your pathetic, self righteous crusade and learn something.
Oh, so Tyler Hamilton's book is going to set the record straight? What kind of pharmaceuticals are you abusing?
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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I just read Tyler's book.
It is mandatory reading for all you yayhoos, Lance haters and Lanceophiles alike.
Doubt him if you wish naive ones.
From Outside Mag.
"What ultimately makes the book so damning, however, is that it doesn’t require readers to put their full faith in Hamilton’s word. In the book’s preface, which details its genesis, Coyle not so subtly addresses Armstrong’s supporters by pointing out that, while the story is told through Hamilton, nine former Postal teammates agreed to cooperate with him on The Secret Race, verifying and corroborating Hamilton’s account. Nine teammates. That fact is the first punch thrown at Armstrong’s supporters—and it might be the most damaging one. Next Wednesday, when The Secret Race comes out, backers will probably make the familiar claim that Hamilton is a disgruntled, bitter ex-rival who got popped for doping and is now looking to cash in. But that doesn’t explain why nine former teammates agreed to cooperate."
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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^Well, I'm at a disadvantage here, not having read the book. However, saying nine riders agreed to cooperate doesn't say much.
While I'm of the opinion that Lance Armstrong doped, why is he such big target, while others are not?
Are Hamilton, any of the nine, Contador banned from the Chicago Marathon?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Sep 10, 2012 - 12:41am PT
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California senators are investigating USADA and its' case against LA....Sounds like USADA is getting some of its' own medicine...
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Sep 10, 2012 - 01:46am PT
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The problem here is that you all can only see Lance as either "good" or "bad." Why can't Lance be a hero to the cancer community for all the work he has done to help fight the disease, but also be someone who used performance enhancing drugs during his career as a cyclist?
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