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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Aug 22, 2012 - 08:46am PT
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1. Why couldn't the jumars be sent down to the guy hanging in space, by putting them on a biner and sliding them down the rope?
2. The guy hanging in space was not in danger of injury from dehyradtion, there was no medical emergency and no need for a helicopter rescue.
3. Early on in this thread someone mentioned a complication in the rap route near the great roof. I forget the details, but if I were the one rapping el Cap, I would remember.
4. I agree with previous comments that the series of small screw ups should have been a red flag that people's brains were not functioning at 100%. That happens to all of us, but you need to learn to recognize it when it happens to you.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Aug 22, 2012 - 11:12am PT
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I think Chris has some real balls (but not brains) to go rap down the Nose. He certainly has some balls to come back here and post. I'll bet, once he develops his brain, he'll be a formidable big wall climber.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Aug 22, 2012 - 11:41am PT
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My faith is what gives me compassion for people
Go back to the gym They should be prosecuted SAR goes out after these morons...while retrieving these morons These two are the same kind of morons we get over here Pinheaded comment. Wise up How pathetic of you, Rick Perhaps you should engage the brain before going off on your mishmash postings Clearly, Werner, MUCH is beyond you....like reality I couldn't care less about Werner he was a "grifter"
Feel the compassion, baby.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Aug 22, 2012 - 11:45am PT
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cragman seems to be a decent guy....but he sure can dig some holes for hisself! pretty damn funny elcap.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 22, 2012 - 11:58am PT
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1. Why couldn't the jumars be sent down to the guy hanging in space, by putting them on a biner and sliding them down the rope?
Because the rope is only hanging in space at the last few feet. It's pinched against the rock forcibly in other places
2. The guy hanging in space was not in danger of injury from dehyradtion, there was no medical emergency and no need for a helicopter rescue.
There is a medical danger however, in hanging in space in your harness for a long period.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Aug 22, 2012 - 12:07pm PT
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Even in my own mental life I go back n forth, back n forth on countless issues - the more complex, the more at stake, the more it tends to happen. The discord if not bipolar nature of this thread reminds me of many of my own moods and thinking processes, regarding climbing, response to Peak Oil, response to American politics, response to world fundamentalism, response to science illiteracy, response to global warming, the extinction of the species, etc., lol!
Time to move on? time to take a OCD pill? hmmm...
......
P.S. A quarter of the reason I climb is for the height, the exposure and the rappel. It continues to amaze me how many of you climbers are afraid - afraid of heights or afraid to fall. As if rappelling is anything like what A.H. does! In WB's words and style: pussies!!
Maybe it takes more ovaries than balls to rappel great heights cool, calm and collected. Ever think of that. It's a fact, more guys than girls pussy out - or perhaps better, c*#k out - in bungee jumping. Go figure.
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Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
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Aug 22, 2012 - 12:34pm PT
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I say we should take the arguing to another thread and stay on topic. Not that that's going to happen because people love to argue, but that's the interwebs for you.
A few posts back, someone mentioned that they always carry certain items with them, and I do the same. My "Bail Kit" has a leaver biner, 8 feet of 1 in. webbing, two rap rings, two quick links, one of those little Trango knives, and a Tibloc. I also keep a Petzl micro ascender with me at all times.
Due to having to bail for the first time ever on a Sedona tower last month, because of a single move, I now carry a set of pocket aiders in my backpack if I am going into "adventure" terrain.
Personally I think that Chris is taking all this pretty well. I'd second seeing him climb with Mark someday!
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Aug 22, 2012 - 01:06pm PT
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I'll mentor anyone who honestly wants it, but there are only a few people I'll actually do walls with.
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Aug 22, 2012 - 01:34pm PT
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Can't we just blame it all on the prefrontal cortex and call it a day?
FYI: prefrontal cortex matures more slowly in males than females. Males not complete until about 26-27...
Maturation of the Prefrontal Cortex
The prefrontal cortex, the part of the frontal lobes lying just behind the forehead, is often referred to as the “CEO of the brain.” This brain region is responsible for cognitive analysis and abstract thought, and the moderation of “correct” behavior in social situations. The prefrontal cortex takes in information from all of the senses and orchestrates thoughts and actions to achieve specific goals.1,2
The prefrontal cortex is one of the last regions of the brain to reach maturation. This delay may help to explain why some adolescents act the way they do. The so-called “executive functions” of the human prefrontal cortex include:
Focusing attention
Organizing thoughts and problem solving
Foreseeing and weighing possible consequences of behavior
Considering the future and making predictions
Forming strategies and planning
Ability to balance short-term rewards with long term goals
Shifting/adjusting behavior when situations change
Impulse control and delaying gratification
Modulation of intense emotions
Inhibiting inappropriate behavior and initiating appropriate behavior
Simultaneously considering multiple streams of information when faced with complex and challenging information
This brain region gives an individual the capacity to exercise “good judgment” when presented with difficult life situations. Brain research indicating that brain development is not complete until near the age of 25, refers specifically to the development of the prefrontal cortex.3
MRI studies of the brain show that developmental processes tend to occur in the brain in a back to front pattern, explaining why the prefrontal cortex develops last. These studies have also found that teens have less white matter (myelin) in the frontal lobes of their brains when compared to adults, but this amount increases as the teen ages. With more myelin comes the growth of important brain connections, allowing for better flow of information between brain regions.4
This body of brain research data has led to the idea of “frontalization,” whereby the prefrontal cortex gradually becomes able to oversee and regulate the behavioral responses initiated by the more primitive limbic structures.
MRI research has also revealed that during adolescence, white matter increases in the corpus callosum, the bundle of nerve fibers connecting the right and left hemispheres of the brain. This allows for enhanced communication between the hemispheres and enables a full array of analytic and creative strategies to be brought to bear in responding to the complex dilemmas that may arise in a young person’s life. Once again the role of experience is critical in developing the neural connectivity that allows for conscious cognitive control of the emotions and passions of adolescence. Teens who take risks in relatively safe situations exercise the circuitry and develop the skills to “put on the brakes” in more dangerous situations.5
With an immature prefrontal cortex, even if teens understand that something is dangerous, they may still go ahead and engage in the risky behavior. Recognizing the asynchrony of development of the regions of the brain helps us to see adolescent risk-taking in a whole new light. This broadened view of risk-taking and the concept of self-regulation are explored in the next section.
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Bill Mc Kirgan
Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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Aug 22, 2012 - 01:45pm PT
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what would Weld-it say?
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Aug 22, 2012 - 02:02pm PT
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Prefontal cortex? My mama said Medulla Oblongata
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Aug 22, 2012 - 02:09pm PT
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Karl I must have missed the part about the ropes going over an edge. Somehow, water was sent down to the lower rapeller, so I'm not sure how that worked. We'll have to disagree over whether hanging in a harness for a few hours constitutes a medical emergency, I've spent a couple nights on el Cap hanging in mine. It is definitely uncomfortable but I think the rescue was called because the lower rapeller was in a panic and didn't know what to do.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Aug 22, 2012 - 02:12pm PT
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This is THE THREAD we've all been anticipating for decades - someone asks about rapping the Nose - actually goes out and does it - and royaly fuks it up. I can't believe what I'm reading finally actually happened.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 22, 2012 - 02:25pm PT
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I now carry a set of pocket aiders in my backpack if I am going into "adventure" terrain.
It's also easy to make an impromptu aider out of a cordalette in a pinch
Peace
Karl
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Aug 22, 2012 - 03:06pm PT
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I made foot slings for my ascenders out of my end of the rope once, when we did a Lost Arrow Spire trip that was a little lighter than we planned. I didn't use a knife; just tied in short and used the extra rope as slings....
More on point, at times I've made an aider quickly from slings (I don't use a cordelette). I saw my partner make a foot sling by clipping quickdraws together in a loop when he needed to aid past a move and didn't have slings....
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 22, 2012 - 03:16pm PT
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Karl I must have missed the part about the ropes going over an edge. Somehow, water was sent down to the lower rapeller, so I'm not sure how that worked.
I must have missed the part about water being sent down. I doubt it still
We'll have to disagree over whether hanging in a harness for a few hours constitutes a medical emergency, I've spent a couple nights on el Cap hanging in mine. It is definitely uncomfortable but I think the rescue was called because the lower rapeller was in a panic and didn't know what to do.
if he wasn't rescued, it could have been much longer. The danger comes if he loses consciousness (remember he was dehydrated. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_trauma
Peace
Karl
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 22, 2012 - 03:39pm PT
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I would not want to try to send my only pair of ascenders down a weighted line that was not free hanging . A spare water bottle, sure worth a shot.
It can work but its risky because generally you just yard the line up and down whenever the item sent down gets stuck. This can get the rope off the wall and pop the item off whatever protrusions, cracks, ledges it encounters. The further down the rope the more weight and the less steepness, the harder it gets to lift or flick the rope off the rock. So there is no guarantee it will work. Not only might it get stuck it might come off the rope with all the shenanigans.
It seems to me the best advice given so far was pCutler suggesting down ascending the rope (after putting kleimheists on each side to secure the rope for later ascent) Down ascending weighted lines is a pain but not too big a deal.
As Karl mentioned however this stuff just isn't familiar techniques for folks who have not done a few walls and had to work their way through the inevitable learning curve of stuck bags, disorganized anchors, Bails with pigs, pendi's and traverses with heavy crap, the endless weird scenarios that just seem to crop up on a wall before you learn to avoid or quickly work through most of them.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 22, 2012 - 03:58pm PT
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i wuz a ravin LUNATIC till Al Roberts produced a back up lighter out of the haul bag.
Quick, Somebody send Ron a lighter!!
;-)
peace
karl
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Aug 22, 2012 - 04:05pm PT
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Wings of Steel....Rappelling El Cap- now where did I put that barf bag?
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Aug 22, 2012 - 04:20pm PT
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“I can't speak for him but I have seen what he has put on Facebook and told other people. He has very clearly stated that if he had left his pack on the rope and ascended without it he could have gotten to the top just fine and seems to feel that would have made the difference. He has said quite a bit more that I think shows his feelings on everything but explaining that is probably risking it looking like I am blaming him.”
All in hindsight. He could have done two things with the pack taken it off his shoulders either clip it below him between his legs or [best] tied a figure eight knot and clip it there, let it hang when started the ascent. Carrying a butt bag this way he could rest and using a shoulder harness would help as well helping in distribution of pressure on the body and you packing a parachute cord as in lowering the one set of jugs to him. Others have already posted on addition equipment. As for him not bringing a helmet should have turned back and tried another day.
Just like to know Chris was your intention to do this in one day or two?
The second is hydration, reason one your first rescuer gave you Gatorade that has sugar and salt [not the best] electrolytes but will work to get your system in balance. Wonder if your partner took one of those energy gels which if you take by themselves will make you sick hence vomiting since they need plenty of water to work. Caffeine is a good starter to get you going but when you are dehydrated will work the opposite making things worse; some of these energy drinks contain them and have a good amount. ?????
So not only having the correct gear but the correct fuel and which kinds.
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