Davis pepper spray , and one prof's response

Ken M,

Your post is surprising and upsetting considering 1) how heavily armed the police are compared to the students, and 2) how there was absolutely, positively nothing they did to provoke that type of violence.

IF you consider it necessary to have police present at this type of demonstration, they could have, especially and the UC Davis campus, kept their distance.

The fact that the police show up and get in the face of the protesters is a provocation in and of itself.

Ironic that the same people who are calling for a small government or to get the government out of just about everything, are the same people who agree with police violence of this type.

Honest question, there were a few cases of police brutality at peaceful Tea Party rallies, did you make the same comments about Tea Partiers provoking the violence?

Reading your post one would think that you would even accuse even Gandhi of hopping that his peaceful marches would turn violent.

These peaceful protests reveal a system and a strategy that was already there, just under the surface.

Ironic that the same people who are calling for a small government or to get the government out of just about everything, are the same people who agree with police violence of this type.

Reading your post one would think that you would even accuse even Gandhi of hopping that his peaceful marches would turn violent.

actually, i'm an english teacher...in a public high school...this weekend, like most weekends, i will spend about 6-8 hours grading papers, trying to give my students the skills they will need to succeed in whatever career they choose: critical thinking and coherent writing...my colleagues who support ows don't even assign essays or, if they do, don't critique them; rather, they assign "service awareness" projects and ask the kids to make posters and express how they feel

"The fact is: the administration of UC campuses systematically uses police brutality to terrorize students and faculty, to crush political dissent on our campuses, and to suppress free speech and peaceful assembly. Many people know this. Many more people are learning it very quickly."

I don't think there is anything more constitutionally protected than what the OWS folks are doing.

Speaking, assembling and petitioning the government for redress.

Almost the FULL first amendment right there. Throw in a few folks praying and it would be.

Takes a law degree and tons of educated BS to get around a simple paragraph.

These pictures and the attempts of our government to use force to stop them are a clear form of totalitarianism.

We applaud the Arab spring but we torture you publicly if you try it here.

The Police State Makes Its Move: Retaining One's Humanity in the Face of Tyranny

by Phil Rockstroh
Published on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 by CommonDreams.org


For days now, we have endured demonstrably false propaganda that the fallen soldiers of U.S. wars sacrificed their lives for "our freedoms." Yet, as that noxious nonsense still lingers in the air, militarized police have invaded OWS sites in numerous cities, including Zuccotti Park in Lower Manhattan, and, in the boilerplate description of the witless courtesans of the corporate media, with the mission to "evict the occupiers".

Hundreds of NYC riot police forcibly evicted Occupy Wall Street from Zuccotti Park early on Tuesday, Nov. 15, 2011. U.S soldiers died protecting what and who again? These actions should make this much clear: The U.S. military and the police exist to protect the 1%. At this point, the ideal of freedom will be carried by those willing to resist cops and soldiers. There have been many who have struggled and often died for freedom--but scant few were clad in uniforms issued by governments.

Freedom rises despite cops and soldiers not because of them. And that is exactly why those who despise freedom propagate military hagiography and fetishize those wearing uniforms--so they can give the idea of liberty lip service as all the while they order it crushed.

When anyone tells you that dead soldiers and veterans died for your freedom, it is your duty to occupy reality and inform them of just how mistaken they are. And if you truly cherish the concepts of freedom and liberty, you just might be called on to face mindless arrays of fascist cops and lose your freedom, for a time, going to jail, so others might, at some point, gain their freedom.

Universities are being targeted??

WTF?!?!?

Universities provide a safe place for students to demonstrate. Universities encourage free speech. Well, obviously not so much now....unless you're not on the "wrong side."

It's really disturbing to hear people who blame the victims. I wonder if white people blamed the violence against blacks simply due to their skin color??

Yet today, we praise people like Rosa Parks and MLK for their courageous acts of civil disobedience.

If the violence committed by the police continues, sh#t is going to get REAL.

A reasonable conversation eh?

Fair enough. I am of the opinion that overall the OWS has an overwhelming priortized right for their actions on public ground. That by the highest law of the land they are defacto following the law as long as they merely occupy chant hold signs set up tents, sleep, feed themselves and so on.

On private property this is not necessarily the case.

UC Davis is a publicly financed institution and is in a grey are somewhat. At the very least a prominent and effective area should be allocated for the protest and camp if so desired.

Perhaps these protesters crossed a reasonable line. However the police certainly could have done a much better job removing them.

Overall however this just appears to be more of the very unconstitutional actions of various authorities nationwide at ending a valid protest.

How is the use of the military NOT an issue of the strongest forcing their will on others?

How is the USA's invasion of Iraq NOT an issue of the strong forcing their will onto the weak?

How was the USA's deliberate use of torture on its prisoners NOT an issue of the strongest forcing their will upon, and abusing, the weakest?

How did the USA's invasion of Iraq benefit the 99%, who were systematically lied to about the reasons for invading a sovereign nation?

How did the USA's complete fabrication of lies in order to invade Iraq, the USA's use of 'shock and awe' to bomb the hell out of a sovereign nation including the wholesale murder of its non-military citizens, the USA's use of torture on its prisoners, and the quagmire that has resulted in Iraq ....how exactly did all this BENEFIT and SERVE our democracy? How was this catastrophic fuk up which was engineered to enrich the 1% and resulted in the death of thousands of Americans of the 99% ... in any way, shape, or form a fight for our 'freedoms'? How was this use of the military anything other than a war of plunder engineered by the 1% to further enrich the 1% at the expense of our democracy?

werner, the folks in this slice of ows who actually are tacticians are hoping to provoke police violence-- that's the point of this slice of the protests. (no, this doesn't include all or necessarily even a majority of the protesters, most of whom don't think tactically let alone strategically or the various folks in the commentariet.)

the point is to provoke police violence which in turn forces the audience to take a position, for or against, thus dividing and polarizing. the theory is that polarization will generate sympathy for the protestors.

that theory didn't work well in 1968, but it seems to have a life of its own.

the weird thing is that such a huge chunk of those involved in the protests and many of those watching/commenting seem to be remarkably unaware of the tactical and strategic point to pushing confrontation over tents.

instead we get a lot of ignorant ranting about totalitarianism or weird sideways conspiracy stuff. the sort of sideshow of this thread is exactly why i was not in favor of ows moving onto college campuses. it invites all kinds of semi-psychotic babbling that then gets attached to universities, and especially public research universities, at the precise moment in which the very idea of a public research university is in trouble.

just a trainwreck.

but yeah, the most self-aware of the protestors who got hit or sprayed were hoping for precisely that outcome.

Couchmaster, we do teach them MLK, Walden, Malcolm X,C. Chavez, Gandhi, civil disobedience in both Eng. and His. departments. Cal. state standards and no child left be behind require it. Bookworm has to adhere to the same standards.

I'm sad my daughter chose sorority pin over protest the other day as my father (WWII vet) brought me up going to SF Vietnam War protests. BUT my family did side with UC Davis's Allen Bakke in'78.

Occupy needs to return to sanity.

It can go around chanting and yelling, provoking police and elected officials. If that is it's goal, it has been effective. If it wants to do something else, it needs to change what it is doing.

One often stated goal is to wake the American people up about it's corrupt gov't. Note to Occupy: in polls, voters rate Congress as a NINE PERCENT approval rating. It was there before you started, you didn't need to do much. Goal accomplished.

Another is doing something about Corporate Power and executive compensation. This requires changes in laws.

Another seems to be dealing with the rollback in school tuition support, school funding, and community safety nets. This requires changes in laws.

There are only two ways to achieve these changes: using the power of voting, or violent revolution.

I do not believe the American people will support violent revolution, and if you do, you better think about who owns the guns. It isn't the Occupy movement.

That leaves voting. The Tea Party, a MUCH smaller faction than Occupy, has successfully used this to cut gov't services, and block all tax increases on the wealthy.

The lack of an adequate tax structure in Calif, has resulted in the cuts to education and the safety net you see. The blocking of the small increases in tax that would result in much better funding is the result of FAR RIGHT REPUBLICANS, who even though a small minority, has the power to block any legislation.

Instead of OCCUPYING downtown LA, if OCCUPY used it's muscle to organize voters IN THE DISTRICTS where the obstructionist Repubs are located, and vote them out, the power shifts, taxes can be adjusted, and goals can be reached.

VERY FEW PEOPLE VOTE in the elections. This means that it would not take a huge number of new voters, to change the outcome. Heck, just get the students (those lazy idiots that don't vote!) to vote, and YOU WILL WIN.

This is how you do it, accomplish OCCUPY goals.

So, back to the endgame. Get off the lawn, you are accomplishing nothing, and pushing supporters WITH POWER away. Accept the city offer, you now have organizing space for a campaign to get the powerbrokers out of office that are preventing your goals from being accomplished.

PEACE is the way.

Bravo to the City, for an innovative approach.

As many have come out for the GOALS of Occupy, even if not agreeing with their tactics, this is a solution that facilitates the movement taking a positive direction---towards accomplishing goals of social justice, equitable compensation, and honest gov't.

It also avoids violent confrontation, and probably saves the taxpayer a lot of money in the long run, by eliminating all the costs involved with the police and other services.

VIOLENCE IS IN NO ONES INTEREST, EXCEPT THE ANARCHIST FRINGE, AND THE RIGHT-WING INFILTRATORS.

Peace is the way.

Occupy L.A. protesters walked out of a meeting with city officials Wednesday after they announced plans to evict the protesters sometime next week, according to several protesters at the meeting.

Protester Jim Lafferty said city representatives told them that they plan to announce the eviction date to the public soon. He said officials promised to give demonstrators at least 72 hours notice before the eviction.

Lafferty, director of the National Lawyers Guild of Los Angeles, relayed the news to the rest of the camp on the south steps of City Hall. He said he walked out of the meeting in anger after the announcement and told city officials they "have not been operating with good faith."

PHOTOS: Occupy protests around the nation

The office of Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, whose staff members are leading the talks, did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

On Tuesday night, a spokesman for Villaraigosa would not comment on the date, saying only, "We're still in negotiations, and no date or deal points have been firmly established."

According to Lafferty and others who have been in the negotiations in recent days, officials earlier this week offered the protesters work space in a city building, along with other incentives, to encourage them to peacefully abandon their camp.

But protesters said city officials on Tuesday wavered on that offer. Lafferty said the city had not given the liaisons enough time to discuss the offer with the protesters.

"They are not willing to give us time to have that discussion," Lafferty told the protesters. "I said, 'The democratic practice here may be slow but it is beautiful and it works.'"

Lafferty and Mario Brito, another city liaison, also talked about strategies for dealing with the eviction.

Lafferty explained that if a protester goes limp while being arrested, he or she may be charged with resisting arrest. Brito urged nonviolence, and said protesters should rid the camp of marijuana and other drugs so that police don't discover them while evicting protesters.

"I'm urging you to do what needs to be done to clean up this camp," he said.

Lafferty said that when it comes time for eviction, a representative from the Los Angeles Police Department "promised not to do what they did at UC Davis," where campus police used pepper spray while evicting protesters.

Lafferty said the National Lawyers Guild would work to defend the protest, and said it would continue even if demonstrators are forced off of City Hall Lawn.

"This movement is bigger than this dead grass," he said.