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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Apr 23, 2011 - 10:19am PT
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Hey Riley, I thought about accepting your bet for the price of a beer, but I don't know how to state it. You posted the link to the CBS report that stated that Mortenson could be liable for $23 million in back taxes. The details of this are included in Krakauer's article and it relates to work done by the law firm Copilevitz & Canter on $7,263,458 in expenses for CAI's education and outreach over a three year period (2007-09). The law firm indicated that these could be considered excessive benefits under IRS rules. The arrangement really stinks, but I read Mortenson's defense against this and checked the regulations. On the face of it, the rule only applies if Mortenson received more benefit that CAI on the speaking tours. CAI received substantially more in contributions than it paid for these activities, so I stated my doubt that the basic arrangement of paying Mortenson's expenses on his education and outreach trips are illegal.
However, you raise a different point in your latest post: There may be illegal spending by Mortenson that has not yet been reported. There may be, and for this reason, I would not take your bet. Krakauer quotes Debbie Raynor, CAI's CFO in 2004, "...CAI has spent over $270,000 in cash and wire transfers without proper documentation as the disbursement of this money. There is no record to who ultimately received these monies or the manner in which it was spent." There is also the comment, reported by Krakauer, that Mortenson used CAI as his personal ATM. But this comment could refer to travel expenses--a charted plane, for instance--that CAI employees or board members thought excessive but are not illegal. If Mortenson was removing money from CAI and spending it on non-CAI related purchases it would not be excessive benefits under the IRS rules, it would just be fraud. This is what got the United Way executives thrown into jail.
Now that I am hooked, I will follow as the story unfolds, like staring at a train wreck.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Apr 23, 2011 - 11:31am PT
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Very interesting article. Here is an especially thought-provoking line:
"As such, one might more appropriately declare the US as the ‘region that gave birth to the Taliban’."
:)
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Apr 24, 2011 - 02:00am PT
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This is one of the most difficult to read threads I've ever come across. People are either drooling at the mouth at the idea of someone elses' hero being cast as a villain or burying both thumbs in their ears shouting "BLABLABLAIMNOTLISTENINGBLABLABLA!"
Gotta be a middle ground... is it possible to be a f*#k up that's done some good too? Life isn't all absolutes.
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slobmonster
Trad climber
OAK (nee NH)
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Apr 24, 2011 - 02:36am PT
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Sidebar:
There's no shortage of potential targets for your righteous fury.
Even LOCKS OF LOVE has got into shenanigans for selling much of the hair they collect from donors thinking that their beautiful long hair will be given away as wigs to kids with cancer. Fact is, much it is sold outright to wig makers. The rest gets made into wigs... which kids with Alopecia purchase (at a discount).
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 24, 2011 - 09:00am PT
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I can't help but wonder if the sales of Three Cups Of Pee or Stones Into Cowsheds have dried up or actually taken off,..?
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Anejo
Ice climber
Yukon
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Apr 24, 2011 - 09:52am PT
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So, what you Americans have better in Afganistan or Pakistan then this guy and this foundation?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 24, 2011 - 10:03am PT
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Anejo, a little more attention to grammar might make your post more intelligible.
Just saying,..
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Anejo
Ice climber
Yukon
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Apr 24, 2011 - 10:10am PT
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is that intelligible answer?
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Anejo
Ice climber
Yukon
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Apr 24, 2011 - 10:11am PT
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btw, skip steve house... nothing but respect
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Anejo
Ice climber
Yukon
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Apr 24, 2011 - 10:37am PT
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once again, what or who's better? Anybody? Never met 'this guy'.
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raymond phule
climber
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Apr 24, 2011 - 10:48am PT
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once again, what or who's better? Anybody? Never met 'this guy'.
I don't know but why does it matter? Is it ok to deceive people if you also do some good?
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Anejo
Ice climber
Yukon
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Apr 24, 2011 - 11:09am PT
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Raymond, it matters! I bet , that vast majority tacoans never live in third world. I mean 'live', not visit or been for couple weeks.That's what missing here.
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raymond phule
climber
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Apr 24, 2011 - 11:16am PT
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So deceiving people is ok if you have lived in a third world country? Where should we draw the line? What if the bank robber give 1 dollar to a charity from the 10 million he got in the robbery, is that ok and he should be free of any charges?
One thing with all this is that it it is up to everyone to decide for themselves if they want to give money to CAI or not. Why does it seem like some people don't want that the facts should be available to the public?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 24, 2011 - 11:26am PT
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So, what you Americans have better in Afganistan or Pakistan then this guy and this foundation?
then? than?
Is it just me? Seems ambiguous and unspecific. WTF is he saying?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 24, 2011 - 12:32pm PT
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So, what you Americans have better in Afganistan or Pakistan then this guy and this foundation?
Nothing. America wastes more money and tells more lies than Mortensen while doing less good.
Not to excuse Mortensen but since 60 minutes doesn't like asking hard question to those in real power anymore, it's fair to say.
and those drones are a pretty short sighted benefit. Sure we might get some Taliban or even a couple Al Queda who are so far back in the sticks they would never be a threat to us, but at the cost of the support of the sovereign Pakistani people who have nuclear arms. We can't keep a compliant president in Pakistan forever if they keep pissing their people off by letting the US bomb them.
Peace
Karl
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Apr 24, 2011 - 12:55pm PT
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Bummer, slobmonster. J donated his Jesus hairs, although his were not worth a lot and getting cut off anyway. I've known others that grew there hair just to donate it though. I hope they take the money that they get for selling weaves and kick it back to cancer/alopecia research.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 24, 2011 - 02:17pm PT
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So, what you Americans have better in Afganistan or Pakistan then this guy and this foundation?
I see.
What he meant to write was;
So, have you Americans (done) better in Afg(h)anistan or Pakistan th(a)n this guy and his foundation?
A fair question that would have been better served by proofreading your reply before posting.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Apr 24, 2011 - 03:34pm PT
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Hey Ron, I spend a fair bit of time communicating with people all over the world whose second or third language is English. Anejo's post was as clear to me on the first reading as your 'corrected' version. Sometimes it helps to read it out loud. Just saying,.. ...as they say.
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