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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 19, 2016 - 06:46am PT
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That's the logic that gets us nowhere.
Your logic loses us a Supreme Court seat for a generation in pursuit of a candidate who can't deliver on his promises even if elected. It's logic that will harm the progressive agenda for decades.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Apr 19, 2016 - 07:12am PT
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What progressive agenda? How did Obama advance the progressive agenda? By lining the pockets of the insurance companies? By executing US citizens without trial? By bombing innocents in foreign lands? By maintaining the gulag in Guantanamo? By continuing to feed the Pentagon the American treasure?
How will Hillary advance the progressive agenda? We know what her husband did. He gutted the social welfare system. Continued the piecemeal destruction of the labor movement. He allowed the consolidation of the oil industry into just a few corporations.
GOP, or GOP-lite. What a choice.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Apr 19, 2016 - 07:13am PT
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I just heard the term "Tea Party Liberals". Now it has meaning.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Apr 19, 2016 - 07:19am PT
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Gary posted What progressive agenda? How did Obama advance the progressive agenda? By lining the pockets of the insurance companies?
Maybe you should take a break from reposting Sanders propaganda on Facebook and read some actual information on what the ACA did? It was certainly a boon to many insurance companies and in return tens of millions more Americans now have healthcare coverage. By your definition "advancing the progressive agenda" means "letting millions of people go without healthcare coverage so that we can preserve a false sense of moral outrage that Republicans won't let us mold America into our utopian vision."
Compassion without action is bullsh#t.
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kattz
climber
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Apr 19, 2016 - 07:20am PT
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Americans....especially the idiot Sanders supporters....
you ARE the 1%. 1% of the world. US government maintains this favorable state for its citizens in part by menacing the world with military power, various interventions stirring revolutions and disorder, in part by clever financial schemes run by the Wall street. So be grateful to your leaders, for what you have.
If your family income is $10,000 a year, you are wealthier than 84 percent of the world. If it's $50,000 or more a year, you make more than 99 percent of the world.
Americans constitute 5% of the world's population but consume 24% of the world's energy.
The bleeding heart liberals... I bet you want the real 99% percent come an take all what you got (without paying homage to you 'rights and equality' BS -- they can care less for this part)?
Wait, even your overpriced California home and your lattes?
Even your iphone built by the slave labor?
The borders....they don't matter...they're just artificial barriers for "justice and equality"...hahaha.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Apr 19, 2016 - 08:13am PT
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Dude: that was on FaceBook months ago...
Your cynical view of the tenuous world order is not entirely unfounded.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Apr 19, 2016 - 08:15am PT
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kattz- Thanks for posting a rephrasing of the "slaves should have been grateful for the food and shelter they were provided" argument. Good to know it's alive and well. Punctuating it with a bad Facebook meme really puts the icing on it.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 19, 2016 - 08:20am PT
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Katz/Tioga is back to blesedly tell us all, again, how wonderful her native Assholistan is, where babies poop little diamonds and the children are all above above average.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 19, 2016 - 12:12pm PT
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If Bernie runs as an independent it means he's willing to put his own ambitions ahead of that appointment.
Bernie has already been elected as an independent. Trump may run as an independent. That's what I meant when I said their loayalty to themselves exceeds that to their party.
What I didn't say, but should have, is that there is one big difference between them still. Bernie is loyal to his vision of America, with a forced egalitarianism and a repeal of the laws of supply and demand. Foolish, in my opinion, but idealistic and free of self-serving egotism. Trump's vision of America has him in charge, which I find frightening.
John
P.S. I just saw guido's post from yesterday and he is right; I shouldn't have insulted the Bernie and Trump supporters as I did. Mea culpa.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 19, 2016 - 12:40pm PT
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as if "Bernie's" ideas are not working in Europe.
Actually, Mosse, they aren't. The demographics of modern European society (and also modern Japanese society) are causing grave concerns for the modern welfare state that Bernie advocates, because they're running out of active workers - and hence other peoples' money - to pay their bills.
John
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Apr 19, 2016 - 12:48pm PT
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Maybe you should take a break from reposting Sanders propaganda on Facebook
I don't do Facebook.
Bernie is loyal to his vision of America, with a forced egalitarianism...
John, I think he wants to do away with forced elitism. Where everyone gets rewarded for their efforts. Where people work 40+ hours per week and don't live in poverty.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 19, 2016 - 01:04pm PT
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John, I think he wants to do away with forced elitism. Where everyone gets rewarded for their efforts. Where people work 40+ hours per week and don't live in poverty.
If he wants to reward everyone for their efforts, he's sure picked an odd way to go about it. Taking what people receive from voluntary actions and giving it to others doesn't strike me as rewarding, it strikes me as redistributing.
I don't think anyone wants to see people living in poverty except, perhaps, some politicians and government workers who would lose their voting base if we eliminated poverty, but I'll admit to great cynicism on that front.
As for giving people jobs, perhaps he could do a better job of explaining how villifying employers leads to more jobs. We're in our eighth year of villification and arbitrary and capricious regulation, and all it's given us is the weakest recovery in my lifetime. Despite the rising job levels, and falling unemployment rate, we haven't come close to reaching the per capita job levels that existed at the start of the current administration.
While his heart may be in the right place, his remedies don't have a particularly good track record.
John
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Apr 19, 2016 - 01:59pm PT
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GOP, or GOP-lite. What a choice.
Sotomayor or Scalia. Pretty easy choice.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 19, 2016 - 05:01pm PT
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I was just looking at minimum wage increases vs. inflation and it looks like minimum wage should go up some IMO, maybe $10.50, but not up to $15.
And there's the question of regional cost of living. Minimum wage for a fast food worker in San Francisco should be higher than for field hands in the Central Valley.
So we should have a federal minimum wage of say $10.50. A California minimum wage of say $12.00. And local municipalities could set it at $15. But raising it to $15 for ALL of California is too much and will have negative consequences for lots of people including the poorest it's supposed to help because many jobs will be eliminated.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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Apr 19, 2016 - 06:39pm PT
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The Fet, the main problem in this country is we have no respect for work.
John wrote:If he wants to reward everyone for their efforts, he's sure picked an odd way to go about it. Taking what people receive from voluntary actions and giving it to others doesn't strike me as rewarding, it strikes me as redistributing
John, I always enjoy our exchanges. But...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
We look at things fundamentally different. To me the redistribution is the taking of the excess wealth (and generally much more than the excess) from those who perform work, regardless of it being physical labor, mind labor, organizational labor or supervisory labor, to a rather small group at the top of the economic ladder. You might consider that distribution voluntary, I would not.
Some think the production of this wealth is more valuable than the accumulation of that wealth into the hands of a few.
Others believe that those at the top make possible the work that takes place and that this distribution is just.
I agree with the conclusion reached by a Republican president:
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Apr 19, 2016 - 07:20pm PT
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The entire U.S. minimum wage issue is a joke...The companies that hire the minimum wage workers own the congress and senate who always vote against raising the minimum wage ...It's like having Boss Hog calling the shots....God bless corrupt America...
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 19, 2016 - 07:23pm PT
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Stoopid Americans remain clueless what's happening behind their backs all while chattering about criminals
they'll vote for like stupid monkeys they've evolved from .....
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kattz
climber
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Apr 19, 2016 - 07:24pm PT
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Regarding Sanders'-type policies "working" in Europe...politically weakened countries with enormous debt per capita, the highest in the world, existing under US patronage (they dance to whatever the US says...and if not the US power....China would make them dance in quite a different way)...overrun by hordes of violent migrants....run by weak, impotent politicians not capable of defending their own...the future Arab colonies...rampant terrorism...decline and aging of native population...yep, socialism is "working".
No wonder all these Europeans who say how well Europe is doing are always looking for H1B visas and green cards in the US!
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