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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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blah blah blah... I consider Nam to be non-conventional "modern" war... and yes, VERY stressful... thank you for helping to illustrate my point....
VERY STRESSFUL
a ploy to get diagnosed with and receive a VA benefit check
Fine. Give them the benefit check, give them treatment, and take away their guns until they are all better. Seems pretty fuking simple.
Problems, problems, problems... no solutions... no wonder this country is fuked.
Merka... bunch of whiny bitches who can't solve their own problems, won't let their elected officials do it, praise their system of government as the greatest EVER, know there are some who OBVIOUSLY shouldn't have guns, but are too afraid that their government will conquer them if they try to restrict gun ownership AT ALL. Pathetic.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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That has got to be FAR more stressful than "conventional" warfare. Anyone who has had to live through that and shows signs of PTSD seems like a pretty high risk to me.
Check out the casualty rates of soldiers in WWI (in those lovely trenches) and compare with the casualty rates of soldiers in Vietnam or the modern wars in the Middle East.
The etymology of "shell shock" is also kind of interesting.
If the modern wars in the ME were anything like good old fashioned total wars, we wouldn't be in that sh#t.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Casualty rates have little or nothing to do with it. In fact, I'd venture a wager with the all mighty that those ill suited for war were among the first to die in WWI (2% casualty rate) and WWII (2.5%), whereas a higher percentage of ill suited soldiers survived the mental fukfest that was Nam (0.7% casualty rate).
Tactics change. Guerrilla warfare involving citizens is OBVIOUSLY more stressful... and obviously has a much higher chance of affecting the mental health of someone reentering society. I've heard of numerous cases where soldiers wanted to go back because they couldn't deal with life over here.
Thank god for drones and the computer game trained soldiers of the future.(?)
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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guerilla warfare involving citzens yu say?? You mean the S Vietnamese werent citizens??
No Ron, I have already said I consider Nam to be non-conventional warfare, at least on par with the more recent wars in the ME.
But feel free to keep twisting it all you want. I'd expect nothing less.
Is this all an excuse for poor behavoir starting young?
Of course not. It is a diagnosis ascribed to someone who exhibits particular symptoms in hopes of better understanding the causes and ultimately treating the patient. Only a fool would look at it as an excuse.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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well,
I personally volunteer at the local VA hospital
I see the effect that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan has had on these young men and women
not talking about the missing arms and legs
when I sit be their bedside and listen to them talk about how unprepared they were to be pulled out of a war zone and sent back to the United States......their constant nightmares and their very real fears and anger......
PTSD is very real, very personal, and is every bit as crippling as physical wounds
anyone who thinks otherwise is naive, uninformed, and just plain fuking stupid as hell
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Sorry Ron, but as a scientist (and somewhat rational human being) it is hard for me not to comment on the absurdity of your posts. There are over 1 million mental health specialists with the VA, you hinge your entire argument on the opinion of one. There are probably a comparable number of applicable studies, you disregard them all.
Your approach is the same, regardless of the topic or discipline... you've made up your mind as to how the world works and will ignore the vast majority of evidence that contradicts your views and latch onto the few unnamed, unvetted, undocumented OPINIONS that support them. And you wonder why people don't show you more respect.
Thank god for old people who are able to keep an open mind!
Funny, this is the first picture on the VA's site:
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Ron,
I am not sure of the point you are trying to make about PTSD
you seem to recognize its effects on soldiers
but then you seem to also down play its effects, almost like you believe PTSD is some kind of fake
and is over prescribed and maybe Doctors should not be treating it with medications
just where do you stand on this, sorry I can't tell?
or maybe you aren't sure and just posting whatever comes to mind?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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However it is also diagnosed too often and the ensuing drugs are also given out too often.
and this you know for sure to be true from your research into VA internal medical findings?
or is your statement simply your opinion
and I am sure you agree that returning Vets who are diagnosed by professionals as suffering from PTSD and those same psychiatric professionals state those Vets should not be armed in the USA
or do you now know more about those kinds of VA diagnosis than the VA does?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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I know very well real PTSD exits. However it is also diagnosed too often and the ensuing drugs are also given out too often.
Apparently we just can't trust professionals with decades of training and experience. Apparently the only way to get anything right is to consult Ron on all decisions about everything.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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As a scientists I am WELL aware that OPINIONS differ. I respect differing OPINIONS when they are supported by data and/or solid theory.
I respect your brother's professional OPINION... along with the other million + mental health care specialists who work with vets. But I'm sure someone else has a brother who has a different professional OPINION, right?
So, how do we determine the proper course of action? (psst, the answer lies in the studies and data... it does NOT involve asking ONE person their OPINION).
Back to (my impression of) Norton's question: You don't deny the horrors and stresses of modern (Nam to now) guerrilla warfare. Given these horrible experiences and the quickness with which modern day vets are taken from society, exposed to the horrors of war, and then thrown back into society... and the fact that WAY more of them survive than in any previous war... is it REALLY that unlikely that more of them suffer from PTSD or similar? Should we stop diagnosing them based on your brother's opinion... or at least consult your brother regarding each diagnosis?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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PTSD has been around a long time.
Very sad.
Anyone know...
Are soldiers with constitutions ill-suited for combat preferentially killed during war? Are soldiers with ill-suited constitutions preferentially affected by PTSD?
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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hit "like" if u like this picture.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Every fall the ERs are visited by gumby hunters with circular wounds about the eye.
See photo for explanation.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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And yet gun nuts argue against requiring some kind of training or demonstration that those buying guns aren't complete morans. If they don't know how to shoot the fuking thing, what makes you think they know how to handle and store it safely? UNfukingREAL.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Wrong again Ron.
A gun nut is someone who loves guns so much that they are incapable of acknowledging the fact that someone who doesn't even know how to shoot a gun shouldn't be able to walk into Walmart and buy one off the shelf.
A gun nut is someone who will talk about government take overs as a legitimate reason to allow essentially unrestricted access to killing machines for damn near everyone, regardless of ability, experience, or competence.
A gun nut is someone who is so overwhelmed by their love for guns that they refuse to acknowledge a certain portion of the population are just too fuking stupid to be allowed to own them... reminds me of hippies who think "everyone must get stoned" only gun nuts are WAY dumber and WAY more dangerous.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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I don't think all gun owners are gun nuts. Target and skeet shooting are fun.
I think people who, say, prohibit taking guns away from people who have restraining orders against them for making violent threats or prohibiting the ATF from tracking sales of the guns favored by cartels are nuts-- in other words congress (aka the NRA).
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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I have a question,, Why does the gubbmint officially classify, (on their orders for AR 15s), do they label those "PERSONAL PROTECTION ARMS",, yet they label them "ASSUALT WEAPONS" when concerning the public??
I have a question. Why do you think "the gubbmint" is one entity that functions with perfect consistency between departments? Who gives a flying fuk what they call them... idiots who don't know enough about guns to prevent scope-eye shouldn't be able to walk into Walmart and buy them... or any gun for that matter.
Why does the government hold News Conferences sometimes and Press Conferences other times? Why are they held in the Press Briefing Room? I think it is a conspiracy.
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