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fosburg
climber
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What is your name healyje?
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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so humans have been on the planet for perhaps 250,000 years
our so-called recorded history (which is really mostly falsified and contrived) only goes back 6000 years
and most of you don't know even a little bit about what is going on in international politics and economics … and much less about our history or potential future scenarios ...
so to provide a couple of glimmers; my grandmother crossed the great plains as a teenager from St Louis to Idaho in an ox drawn wagon, helped her father build a house, and lived in that house long enough to watch on TV as people walked on the moon … all in one generation
i started out building computers with mechanical relays from party-line telephones and mechanical juke box parts, and progressed through vacuum tube computers with magnetic iron core memory, through transistor based computers with punched paper tape and paper cards, to magnetic tape to integrated circuits to super computers with fibre optics and huge memory systems and AI and immersive VR and smart phones … all in one generation
and look at the progress in rock climbing in the same time frame … and a thousand other domains ...
meanwhile someone has suppressed advanced power systems that were developed a century ago and has forced us to use 1880s-level technology that can be monopolized with internal combustion engine petroleum-fueled vehicles so we could destroy the ecosystem of the planet in one generation
of course we did all of that with no outside influence because we humans are so smart and wise
and of course the material sciences and cosmology and physics have it all figured out except for the details
and just who is being gullible around here??
if any of you have done even one percent of the research by Dr Stephen Greer or Linda Moulton Howe or a thousand other researchers and whistleblowers … then perhaps your opinions are worthy of attention here
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Nobody panic, keep calm.
You may want to sit down,
for this very month,
Friday the 13th comes on Wednesday!#|^"pogo
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Of course all conspiracy enthusiasts think that the skeptics and debunking is a "Deep Government" conspiracy to keep the truth from getting out.
And of course they couldn't be more wrong, there is a private citizen Skeptical Movement as strong as the conspiracy nut movement.
People like me that want to know the truth, these private scientists go out and do their own investigations on the paranormal, religions, cults, historical claims, conspiracies, UFOs and a lot of other cool stuff.
We have skeptical societies, books, magazines, and lot's of internets.
This is an invaluable source to link quickly to the absurd
The Skeptic's Dictionary
http://skepdic.com/
Almost every UFO sighting or claim has been investigated and documented by skeptics.
Here is an index from one part of the Dictionary
http://skepdic.com/tialien.html
topical index: extraterrestrials and UFOs
A
alien abduction
ancient astronauts
anomalous luminous phenomena
Area 51
Aztec UFO hoax
C
cattle mutilation
crop circle
D
The Dogon and Sirius II
E
extraterrestrial
F
face on Mars
flying saucer
H
hollow Earth
I
Ica stones
M
Marfa lights
Men in Black
N
Nazca lines
P
Pleiadian
pyramidiocy
R
Raëlian
rod
Roswell
S
Santa Claus
Zecharia Sitchin
star child
U
Unidentified Flying Objects [UFOs]
Nothing about the Ark on the Moon, I guess it hasn't been debunked yet!
Klimmer, There's still hope !
You can read the skeptical investigations on almost any topic.
You can see how science was used to debunk these claims, and you can understand that people claim all kinds of stuff, and if it sounds to wild too be true, it better have solid proof or it will be debunked.
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Phantom X
Trad climber
Honeycomb Hideout
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Can't we install a force field or something similar around the earth to keep the G-d damn aliens out so that they quit disturbing us? And make them pay for it! I don't know how to handle the skeptics.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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just who is being gullible around here??
You are, and maybe getting demented for all I know. Having built the same series of computers as you, I can speak to the fact that, yes, we do actually know enough about cosmology, physics and material science to say it's all total bullsh#t. What's more, none of that is even required - common sense alone is enough to conclude that.
Once again, the notion the US has been veritable extraterrestrial union station for the past sixty years is simply moronic in the extreme.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2016 - 12:48pm PT
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Well if the evidence is true, and the many eye witnesses are not lying, then it isn't moronic. They're here. It's true.
The fact that you can't wrap your head around that and you can't understand the physics of it all, doesn't matter. Doesn't mean it's not real.
Perhaps one of the best documentaries out there for understanding the UFO phenomenon and getting your head out of the sand ...
UFOs OUT OF THE BLUE - HD FEATURE FILM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cYPCKIL7oVw
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 10, 2016 - 04:02pm PT
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Klimmer
use plain words to describe the evidence
please give us an account of a single occurrence that was documented and can be traced back to the original event.
My computer won't run the videos or click on links
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 10, 2016 - 04:04pm PT
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They're here. It's true.
They're not. It's false. And pathetically sad as well.
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rmuir
Social climber
From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Apr 10, 2016 - 05:19pm PT
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Well if the evidence is true, and the many eye witnesses are not lying, then it isn't moronic. They're here. It's true.
Your evidentiary presumptions appear lacking. It is equally valid—perhaps more so—that if the evidence is false, and the many "eye witnesses" are lying, then it is moronic. They're not here. It's not true.
The fact that you can't wrap your head around that and you can't understand the physics of it all, doesn't matter. Doesn't mean it's not real.
Your pomposity is staggering. Try as you might, trotting out a few questionable oddities—in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary—does not prove your point. (And this pretty-much goes for your Biblical "evidence" as well…)
EXTRATERRESTRIALS MAY BE OUT THERE But He Says They’re Not Here
http://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/extraterrestrials-may-be-out-there/
An interview with Philip J. Klass (1919–2005), the world’s leading UFO skeptic, was published in Skeptic magazine volume 7, number 4 in 1999.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Apr 10, 2016 - 07:31pm PT
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Apr 10, 2016 - 08:14pm PT
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So Randisi, lording over us again with your French??????
Well, two can play that game:
Regarder, un vaisseau spatial extraterrestre volant!!!!!!! (thanks Google)
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Apr 10, 2016 - 08:36pm PT
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interesting discussion
i am very familiar with how people can cling to their view of reality like grim death and i respect people going to great lengths to reinforce their world view
i remain personally unconvinced that we know much about much of anything, especially some of the unusual phenomena and observations and ancient artifacts that seem interesting and difficult to explain honestly
my personal opinion is that commonly accepted world views are so childish as to be comical if we didn't have so much invested in them…particularly the material sciences, physics, and cosmology … not to mention politics, economics, religion, etc
the truth of reality is likely well beyond the wildest imaginations of most humans, and it is our great challenge to try and make sense of our observations and to understand
you can study the history of the sciences in considering this viewpoint
it is not helpful holding a fixed myopic world view into which we try to fit scarce samplings of facts
there are concepts and there are data, and often not much relationship between the two
for a minor example we got a county SAR rope rescue team callout last week where a very intelligent and consciensous solo hiker (she is a financial analyst) called 911 on her cell phone to report she had fallen off a cliff and landed in a very uncomfortable position on a rocky ledge and was afraid to move because she would fall further off the cliff
she was in an area with many steep cliffs and i was set up to do a roped pickoff with the team gearing up to do a haul and carry
when we go to her, four of us walked along the trail she had lost and walked UP about three feet to where she had spent two hours uninjured in absolute terror clinging to the rocky ground and afraid to move
if she had slipped or fallen, she would have landed on the trail
we talked to her and held her hand and helped her stand up and walked her back to the trail and back to her car
don't bother trying to explain that her abject terror bore no relationship to reality and that she was in no danger of falling off a cliff
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Apr 10, 2016 - 08:41pm PT
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 10, 2016 - 08:43pm PT
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So true Tom.
Same thing happened once here.
The guy was "ledged Out" lol.
I walked right up to him and held his hand walking back on a narrow ledge back to the talus which was about 20 feet.
Your grandmother could have done it ......
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Apr 10, 2016 - 08:44pm PT
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The fact that you can't wrap your head around that and you can't understand the physics of it all, doesn't matter. Doesn't mean it's not real.
Likewise, the fact that you believe extraterrestrial beings are landing here doesn't mean they really are.
Neither I, nor anyone else, can prove that we've never been visited by beings from elsewhere. But, as anyone who has mastered the basics of logic can tell you, not being able to disprove something, doesn't prove that something.
If, as you and others believe, extraterrestrial beings are constantly visiting our planet, show me something that will make me take you seriously. And no, "Well this important guy has a video in which he says alien spacecraft are landing here" is not serious evidence. If alien spacecraft are really landing here, take me to one.
The way you and others talk about this, our planet is an intergalactic transfer hub, with alien spacecraft popping in and out all the time. If so, where is the proof? Of the 7 billion people on this planet, at least half are walking around with cell phone cameras 24/7. Where are the pictures? And no, not some fuzzy photoshop job, but a real clear picture. 25 years ago, those fuzzy photos might have been the best evidence available. Not now.
You can make a case that the US government is running a massive cover-up, but so what? Is the Peruvian government capable of that kind of cover-up? The Latvian government? The Indonesian government?
Or are the aliens only visiting the US, because, you know, no one goes to Germany any more, it's just so last year.
Same thing with the giants that walked the earth with your grandpa. Where are the bones? Other than in a stupid photoshop picture, that is.
I don't deny that the US government has put a lid on any number of things it doesn't want you to know. But it's a big world, and if extraterrestrial (but, you know, humanoid-looking) beings were here in the numbers you believe they are, we'd all know about it.
And, just so you know, I suspect there is plenty of intelligent life in the universe. And I hope to see real evidence of it before I die. But real evidence is, so far, not available.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 10, 2016 - 08:49pm PT
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You have to have special eyeballs to see the aliens.
They are in subtle material bodies not visible to the gross materialists.
Thus the stooopid gross materialists are always talking sh!t about everything they are clueless to .....
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Apr 10, 2016 - 08:53pm PT
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those of you who claim there is no solid evidence to be considered are simply betraying the fact that you have not bothered to do your homework...
even when the extensive research of others is offered to you for free
i am not telling you what to believe
i am telling you to do your homework before holding so tightly to conventional world views
Edit: Werner Braun is way too far out for this crowd, so don't even try until you have invested comparable levels of effort…whether we are talking about the unusual phenomena of his rock climbing in Yosemite or his understanding of other sorts of unusual phenomena
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Apr 10, 2016 - 09:45pm PT
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Geez Tom,
"my personal opinion is that commonly accepted world views are so childish as to be comical if we didn't have so much invested in them…particularly the material sciences, physics, and cosmology … not to mention politics, economics, religion, etc"
Maybe it's because these 'commonly accepted world views' actually work? They allow us to predict things and check the results. Until the alien people (non-Trump types) are able to produce some sort of scientific, meaning testable, stuff, it is all BS. Except for Tintin.
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