Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
bc
climber
Prescott, AZ
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 12:28pm PT
|
skip, Everytime I bring up the apparent contradiction between gods much lauded omnipotence and his apparent unwillingness to prevent evil, I get the same response like the one you just gave.
Let's forget for a minute about the sins people commit. What about the suffering caused by natural diasters, disease (especially born upon children) etc? All sorts of evil slips past gods almightiness. We often learn most from just the hardships of life in general. I really hate the "it builds character" line, what utter BS.
Millions laid waste by disease and distruction. Are these, as you say, "problems of our own making". These are the evils I'm mainly talking about. Why does god allow things to be so, well, god-awful? I have never heard a good answer to this. I realize this has been discussed at length here and in other threads. Unless you've got something better or new to add, you might as well not bother.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 12:41pm PT
|
John Milton had some fun stuff to say about Lucifer, who undoubtedly got the good role in his poems.
|
|
bc
climber
Prescott, AZ
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 12:52pm PT
|
Jennie said, Our existence on earth is probationary.....or a test if you will. Satan is ALLOWED to tempt us as part of that probation. But infering, from that, that Satan is as powerful as God ?......well, Epicurus was in need of logic lessons from Aristotle.
No one is inferring Satan is as powerful, the question is why doesn't god do something about it? Why does he allow it all to continue this way? Enough with Satan and the whole sin thing, what about the all the other distructive crap we have to endure? Why does god allow (enjoy?) this very messy "probationary" period?
After Satan is defeated, will we still have free will? If everything is going to be hunky-dory after the dust settles, what is god waiting for? Get on with it and end the suffeing already, dude.
Still no answer as to did god know all this was going to happen.
|
|
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 12:58pm PT
|
Also, after the fall of Lucifer --> Satan, you need to know what happened and all the details regarding the 33.33% of the Angels falling with Lucifer (now Satan), and what then took place on Earth. This is very crucial information to really understand the entire picture. You need to read the book of Enoch.
Here is a very good copy of the Book of Enoch with a whole chapter devoted to cross comparing using scripture from the Bible, and how it is in line with the rest of the Holy Bible perfectly, and is even often qouted from within what we accept as the Holy Bible today . . .
Fallen Angels and the Origins of Evil: Why Church Fathers Suppressed the Book of Enoch and Its Startling Revelations
by Elizabeth Clare Prophet
http://www.amazon.com/Fallen-Angels-Origins-Evil-Revelations/dp/0922729433/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260553519&sr=8-8
You know the bottom line is this, would GOD want his finest creation to be robotic and love him at the snap of a finger, or would GOD want to chance it and give his creation the ability to think for themselves, and have the freedom of choice to choose to love him or reject him?
Which love is real? Forced or chosen?
Now, you know why. He took a huge risk, but in the end he will have a Universe full of creation that has chosen to love him because we want to love him and we chose to love him. Love that is real and not fake, that is what he wants from us and we want from him.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 01:06pm PT
|
bc -- "Why does he allow it all to continue this way?"
You allow it not some God. You're the rascal always pointing the finger outside of yourself.
Be a rascal and nature will retaliate.
|
|
bc
climber
Prescott, AZ
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 01:16pm PT
|
No skip, I was saying your answer was BS. Do you believe that such things are "problems of our own making" (your words)? Do you believe god allows disease and distruction to build character and to learn something about ourselves? That's it?
|
|
bc
climber
Prescott, AZ
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 01:22pm PT
|
You allow it not some God. You're the rascal always pointing the finger outside of yourself.
Be a rascal and nature will retaliate.
I create tsunamis, earthquakes, disease? Wow, I had no idea I was such a silly rascal!
|
|
bc
climber
Prescott, AZ
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 01:31pm PT
|
Charity is character.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 01:32pm PT
|
Well we can truly see that bc has no real comprehension, only a cave man knee jerk reaction.
Doesn't seem to be able to think much either.
Like I said in my previous post tsunamis, earthquakes, disease are natures reactions and retaliations for our rascaldom against it.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 01:32pm PT
|
So was man created before or after Lucifer's fall from grace?
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 01:36pm PT
|
The American Alpine Institute's current ad on SuperTopo:
"When hell freezes over, we'll climb there too!"
|
|
bc
climber
Prescott, AZ
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 01:38pm PT
|
Like I said in my previous post tsunamis, earthquakes, disease are natures reactions and retaliations for our rascaldom against it.
I gladly accept my kinship with the cave men and remain happy I do not see the world as you do.
|
|
bc
climber
Prescott, AZ
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 01:40pm PT
|
skip, I left out the word "not" in my last post.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 01:44pm PT
|
I gladly accept my kinship with the cave men and remain happy I do not see the world as you do.
Then fix the world rascal, and quit wasting time talking .....
|
|
bc
climber
Prescott, AZ
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 01:47pm PT
|
Who says I'm wasting my time. Maybe I'm saving the world by posting on this miserable thread.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 01:47pm PT
|
So again, was man created before or after Lucifer's fall from grace?
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 02:05pm PT
|
healyje -- "So again, was man created before or after Lucifer's fall from grace?"
Well, anyone?
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 02:19pm PT
|
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 03:00pm PT
|
Is it really 'free will' when your only choices are obedience and eternal damnation?
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2009 - 03:09pm PT
|
Is it really 'free will' when your only choices are obedience and eternal damnation?
Yes good question.
My answer is, NO, as that would not constitute "free will"
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!