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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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May 13, 2014 - 04:24pm PT
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So will somebody tell me why Obama, or whoever runs the government, is being
such a pussy about this? I mean, if this was a bunch of hippies in a park
they'd have been all over 'em, no? And it isn't like these wannabe Brown Shirts
are loyal taxpaying citizens, are they?
the wingnuts here are heavily armed, and not under any control. any one of them could go postal, and start firing. The result would undoubtedly be a significant killing of the "citizens".
No administration, R or D, wants to be in the position of killing citizens. The gov't has the power, the organization, and the law on it's side. The "citizens" can start the killing and create chaos. They have that power. The key is to take that power away from them...and it's not easy, when they are willing to ignore the law.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 13, 2014 - 04:26pm PT
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The 'government' doesn't seem to have any qualms about killing citizens in
Los Angeles, Anaheim, Albuquerque, to mention a few cities. Hell, in those
places you don't even have to be armed!
What's the difference between looting a store in Watts and looting the public lands?
I'll tell you what, in Watts they send in the National Guard.
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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May 13, 2014 - 04:33pm PT
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Here for y,all,s entertainment i will offer my honest opinion of the moo-militia:
Those dudes out there honestly believe they,re fighting against a tyrannical govt. They clearly believe Bundy has some justifiable complaint against the govt and that BLM,s armed roundup is over the line, to the point they took up arms against govt employees doing their job. They additionally believe there are shady deals behind the scenes prompting this action against Bundy, therefore making this a case far above and beyond that of BLM vs delinquent cow-hand.
I dont believe it goes that far. I think they,re mistakenly backing a lost cause who just wont play by the rules. I dont believe the court system in which Bundy lost his ass is any part of a conspiracy to grab his deeded land, or that he has any more right to the federal land he,s claiming than any of the rest of us.
Is this to say it couldnt happen? No, there are plenty of shady things our govt does like NSA wire tapping of US citizens as one example. And not just at the fed level, but right down and through local and individual players.
However, these militia dudes have already taken the stance that this is far and above a cow thing, and to back down would show weakness and lack of resolve, besides admitting a mistake in backing Bundy. Kinda like me calling out Ron over the private gate to Little Valley. They arent likely to just back down now.
That doesnt make them right. Im not seeing any such sufficient evidence in their favor to think their stance is justifiable in this case. In fact i would challenge them to produce the actual court transcripts and evidence involved in Bundy,s previous cases, if not already available.
Im curious what will happen next, and whether they,ve considered this outcome as things cusrently stand. This could drag out interminably, the feds could seize Bundy,s assets, as well as those of militia members, they could pick off individual members and/or groups of members as they leave the area or thereafter, and prosecute them without ever firing a rhot, etc. There,s a range of possibilities and im not sure those ol, boys have completely thought it through, or the various repercussions of their acts.
Big shootout with the feds? Betcha a new push for gun control, and re-evaluation of militia groups across the board, which is likely going on. See, they call for scrutiny of the govt, but what scrutiny of their actions will they withstand? Not much. Are they open to internal discussion and dissent? If Rons response to any of the dissenting posts here is an indication I,d say not. Tow the party line or GTFO lest ye be thumped hard. Correct me if im wrong here, but isnt it hard to fight for freedom using dictatorial tactics?
This whole damn thing sounds like a bunch of passionate gung ho dudes trying to fight for what they think is good for the country but getting duped into backing the wrong guy and making a piss poor show of it to boot. Remember the california open-carry crowd? That thoroughly backfired in their self-righteous faces, and all they did was make a public spectacle of exercising their rights, which they subsequently lost. Great job.
Whether there are decorated purple heart vets there or not- how much difference does that make to the cause? Are they incapable of error? Are they above scrutiny? Huge thanks for their service, bravery, and sacrifice. That doesnt make them gods.
This thing isnt over yet. There will likely be long-term repercussions, and i struggle to see how any of them will be good. Not in a day and age where most changes to govt regulations and operating procedure tend in a more restrictive direction.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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May 13, 2014 - 04:35pm PT
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Reilly you are sadly only too correct.
There is a real militarization of American law enforcement.
I credit this to blow back from the rabid nationalism after nineeleven that allowed the Shrub to implement disastrous policies. The worst of which is that in the eyes of LEOs we are now seen as guilty until proven innocent or dead. And there in lies the rub in that there really are significant issues of Government overreach and malfeasance not to mention a "shoot first aim later" attitude of militarized LEOs. But the armed insurrection advocated by Rong Co is only going to cause significant negative blow back. They will lose but we all will suffer.
JRig excellent post. I hope you don't mind me agreeing with you.
I'd go shooting with you any day so long as you pay for the ammo. :-)
I don't hate guns just their misuse.
Just like I don't hate the US military just it's misuse.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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May 13, 2014 - 04:47pm PT
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Now we know what those kids in Ohio did wrong.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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May 13, 2014 - 04:50pm PT
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Well he better bring his gun when he comes
'cause otherwise he be commin' up a-short.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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May 13, 2014 - 05:34pm PT
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 13, 2014 - 06:57pm PT
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some whacko is going to start shooting.
Good, give 'em what they're looking for, and then some. They are right about
Obama being of a new world order, as opposed to their old world order. He
believes in rule of law, not the rule of the few laws they choose to honor.
If the 'lawless' citizens of Watts are worthy of a mobilization of the
National Guard then these wackos are more worthy in view of their firepower.
The National Guard still flies A-10's but if not then Apache gunships will do.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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May 13, 2014 - 06:58pm PT
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best reply to the Sovrun Citzun nonsense I've seen is a fed judge in Washington, who wrote in his decision:
In a criminal case in 2013, the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Washington noted:
Defendant [Kenneth Wayne Leaming] is apparently a member of a group loosely styled “sovereign citizens.” The Court has deduced this from a number of Defendant’s peculiar habits. First, like Mr. Leaming, sovereign citizens are fascinated by capitalization. They appear to believe that capitalizing names has some sort of legal effect. For example, Defendant writes that “the REGISTERED FACTS appearing in the above Paragraph evidence the uncontroverted and uncontrovertible FACTS that the SLAVERY SYSTEMS operated in the names UNITED STATES, United States, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, and United States of America . . . are terminated nunc pro tunc by public policy, U.C.C. 1-103 . . . .” (Def.’s Mandatory Jud. Not. at 2.) He appears to believe that by capitalizing “United States,” he is referring to a different entity than the federal government. For better or for worse, it’s the same country.
Second, sovereign citizens, like Mr. Leaming, love grandiose legalese. “COMES NOW, Kenneth Wayne, born free to the family Leaming, [date of birth redacted], constituent to The People of the State of Washington constituted 1878 and admitted to the union 22 February 1889 by Act of Congress, a Man, “State of Body” competent to be a witness and having First Hand Knowledge of The FACTS . . . .” (Def.’s Mandatory Jud. Not. at 1.)
Third, Defendant evinces, like all sovereign citizens, a belief that the federal government is not real and that he does not have to follow the law. Thus, Defendant argues that as a result of the “REGISTERED FACTS,” the “states of body, persons, actors and other parties perpetuating the above captioned transaction(s) [i.e., the Court and prosecutors] are engaged . . . in acts of TREASON, and if unknowingly as victims of TREASON and FRAUD . . . .” (Def.’s Mandatory Jud. Not. at 2.)
The Court therefore feels some measure of responsibility to inform Defendant that all the fancy legal-sounding things he has read on the internet are make-believe
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 13, 2014 - 07:06pm PT
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Militias in general are peopled by angry, underachieving people who feel disenfranchised. Ron's mention that two of Bundy's crowd possessed purple hearts changes things not a bit. There are plenty of veterans who got in the way of enemy fire who are not well functioning people. I remember a dude who got the medal of honor in Vietnam. He got back to New Jersey and supported himself for a year by selling Vietcong scalps he smuggled back to people in the local VFWs.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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May 13, 2014 - 07:06pm PT
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Rong and the Bund-oids should do them selves a real favor and watch the videos of Putin's real soldiers driving armored vehicles through the compound walls of the Ukrain's real soldiers stationed in Crimea.
They just might be forced to conclude one of two things.
Either they should so fear the threat of tyranny from Obama and the Feds that they should all have a collective pants soiling while the still have the chance.
Or that their hyperbolic terror of Obama's tyranny is nothing more than a collective fantasy of their easily deluded minds.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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May 13, 2014 - 07:21pm PT
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Hate is the fuel that keep their fire burning. It is all base on hate.
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Sanskara
climber
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May 13, 2014 - 07:31pm PT
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Donini
Thank you for stating the obvious with regard to a topic and angle no one else was gonna touch..
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fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
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May 13, 2014 - 07:37pm PT
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The 'government' doesn't seem to have any qualms about killing citizens in
Los Angeles, Anaheim, Albuquerque, to mention a few cities. Hell, in those
places you don't even have to be armed!
that wasn't the feds.
the thing about these militia 'protest' events is that they've had local law enforcement (sheriffs) sympathetic to their 'cause' and unwilling to enforce the law. they basically show up to make sure those idiots don't get suicidal and start some crap. we'll see what happens when that's not the case.
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Sanskara
climber
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May 13, 2014 - 08:34pm PT
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Ron,
You live in a little insignificant sh#t hole bubble, it's called Utah and gun shop. It represents a very very small portion of the population of this country.
Maybe if you nut cases stepped outside your Mad Max doomsday seaker militia freaks show reality you would see just how spun out and f*#ked up you all are. But no instead you all gather around the same campfire and jerk each other off over the size of your guns and the new ATV you got in the back of you pickup.
What kinda person is so consumed with self defense they are trained in ten disciplines of martial arts brags about his gun collection and can top it all off with his ability to throw a knife and an axe. Really what kinda nut case grown man is preoccupied with such nonsense?
A f*#king mental case thats who...
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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May 13, 2014 - 08:40pm PT
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good stuff
What the f*#k did you just f*#king say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the f*#k out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my f*#king words. You think you can get away with saying that sh#t to me over the Internet? Think again, f*#ker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re f*#king dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little sh#t. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your f*#king tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will sh#t fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re f*#king dead, kiddo.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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May 13, 2014 - 08:53pm PT
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Wow Rong you sound like a bitchin dude. All that and an honorary member of the Oompa Loompa Clan too. And didn't you once claim you were on rescues in DahNang?
I can Phart on command.
Oh and I learned 24 ways to kill with common household vegatables.
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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May 13, 2014 - 09:02pm PT
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Perfection. Nevada, Utah, who cares. Perfection.
May 13, 2014 - 05:34pm PT
Ron,
You live in a little insignificant sh#t hole bubble, it's called Utah and gun shop. It represents a very very small portion of the population of this country.
Maybe if you nut cases stepped outside your Mad Max doomsday seaker militia freaks show reality you would see just how spun out and f*#ked up you all are. But no instead you all gather around the same campfire and jerk each other off over the size of your guns and the new ATV you got in the back of you pickup.
What kinda person is so consumed with self defense they are trained in ten disciplines of martial arts brags about his gun collection and can top it all off with his ability to throw a knife and an axe. Really what kinda nut case grown man is preoccupied with such nonsense?
A f*#king mental case thats who...
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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May 13, 2014 - 09:06pm PT
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But I've only ever learned to bake biscuits.
Never learned howduh blastem biskits.
I wonder if RongO will back delete his posts again when he realizes what a putz he sounds like. Me I'm just rude, impolite and hateful..
Big phun.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 13, 2014 - 09:18pm PT
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In my experience people touting their proficiency in the martial arts have not acquitted themselves well in actual fights.
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