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WBraun
climber
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Dec 10, 2009 - 05:43pm PT
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Nobody started out to kill God.
Oh yeah .....
Hiranyakasipu did from the very beginning.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 10, 2009 - 05:45pm PT
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777 is not Skip (who we may hear from soon because he is Catholic!)
777 writes
"And I suggest you do likewise with a "fresh reading" of one of the Gospels(as will I). It would do us all some good!"
I haven't seen those episodes myself. Somebody mentioned them and so they are now cued up for my viewing.
I've found some external scholarship regarding the origin, history and context of the gospels to be valuable in learning how to read the Gospels. If you ever get a chance to check out stuff from Bart Ehrman, it's a good perspective to balance habitual way folks study the bible with
http://www.bartdehrman.com/
Peace
Karl
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 10, 2009 - 06:33pm PT
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The goal is never to go to heaven in the first place ....
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 10, 2009 - 07:17pm PT
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Base wrote
"One of the things I have never understood about religion is that it requires belief to get into heaven. "
Just an interesting fact that Christianity is virtually alone as requiring a belief to go to heaven. None of the Eastern Paths, nor Judaism do, and not really Islam either. (Although Islam is probably closer to Christianity than the rest in this sense...also in Islam, it is Jesus and not Mohammed who comes on Judgement day)
Then, there is how you define "belief" What's that really mean?
Peace
Karl
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Dec 10, 2009 - 07:44pm PT
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Heaven is not the same as Nirvana, right Werner?
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 10, 2009 - 07:48pm PT
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Nirvana is not the goal either ......
Cessation of all material activities, equals false renunciation.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Dec 10, 2009 - 07:49pm PT
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So what do you call it?
From your edit, it sounds like you are advocating what the Buddhists call being a Boddhisattva, and returning to this suffering world to help others?
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 10, 2009 - 07:51pm PT
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The greatest soul ever is the one who only serves the lord, no matter where.
This great soul does not care if he goes to hell or upper planetary systems thus he is ever liberated where ever he is ........
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 10, 2009 - 08:04pm PT
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The atheists, non believers and so on whatever one wants to call themselves are also killers, murders, and war mongers just as the try to deflect that on the so called Christians.
Maintaining large scale industrialized and mechanized slaughterhouses they are also so cruel and dark with their mistreatment of animals.
Thus they have lost their soul ......
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Dec 10, 2009 - 08:14pm PT
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This great soul does not care if he goes to hell or upper planetary systems thus he is ever liberated where ever he is
In Buddhism, this is the definition of a Buddha. One who chooses Nirvana is reabsorbed into what you call God (Advaita Vedanta) and one who chooses to exist somewhere else in service is a Boddhissattva.
Different names, same belief as far as I can tell.
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slayton
Trad climber
Here and There
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Dec 10, 2009 - 08:25pm PT
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I was the one who mentioned the Frontline episodes. One of many interesting ideas presented is that the Gospels were never meant to be taken literally but were meant as parable. They were written by four different men, in four different geographical areas for four vastly different audiences, some Jewish and some Gentile (there were no Christians at this point). Even in the very beginning there were differences of opinion about the direction this new movement should take with Paul emphasising the death and resurrection while others emphasised the words and teachings of Jesus.
To me there are the words and teachings of Jesus, meant to reaveal the path to a righteous and ethical life, and then there are all of the Christian religions, bickering amongst themselved about whose path is the true path, using the symbol of Jesus for their own ends and means.
I say screw the ritual. Go to the source. But then the main "source", the Bible, isn't even really complete because so much was left out by the original Church in Rome because it wasn't politically expedient or the information conflicted with message they wanted to project. I guess this makes the Catholic Church one of the first spin doctors. Hmmm .. ..
Cheers,
Sean
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Dec 10, 2009 - 08:29pm PT
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It has been said that people took the religion of Jesus and turned it into a religion about Jesus.
It is very fascinating by the way, to read through the gospels and epistles, which were not included in the Christian canon.
In particular, I would mention the Gospel According to Thomas.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 10, 2009 - 08:40pm PT
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Nirvana is reabsorbed into what you call God
The Mayavadi theory that after liberation the individual soul, separated by the covering of māyā or illusion, will merge into the impersonal Brahman and lose its individual existence is not supported.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Dec 10, 2009 - 09:54pm PT
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Thanks Werner for the reference!
I've just started reading about the Mayavadi theory and the Vedic objections.
It will take a while to get through it though.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 10, 2009 - 11:08pm PT
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If you ask me, Base, God doesn't pay any attention to what religion you are.
The Ultimate Spirit knows you directly from the inside and sees with unconditional Love.
We judge ourselves, whether we are believers or not. Jesus hinted at it when he said, "Judge not, lest ye be Judged'
It's your state of Being that counts (some might say the quality of your heart, which is the same thing but a different metaphor) not what you think, which is only there when you think it.
We can think all kinds of things but it's just different content in the brain space if it doesn't change you within
Peace
Karl
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Dec 10, 2009 - 11:10pm PT
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"The new Hubble deep field. Just look at all those galaxies.
And yet we're supposed to be God's precious one-and-onlys?
How naive."
"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."
John 10:16
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Dec 10, 2009 - 11:12pm PT
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"In my papa's house there are many rooms."
Something like that, anyway.
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bc
climber
Prescott, AZ
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Dec 11, 2009 - 12:09am PT
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W said, Maintaining large scale industrialized and mechanized slaughterhouses they are also so cruel and dark with their mistreatment of animals.
I hadn't realized that it was only athiests who did that.
Sure there aren't just a few religious ranchers out there?
What a strange thing to write.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 11, 2009 - 12:26am PT
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Maintaining large scale industrialized and mechanized slaughterhouses qualifies as atheistic.
So if one says I'm a Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, etc etc and maintains and supports industrialized and mechanized slaughterhouses then where's "religion"?
Saying animals have no soul and we can do whatever we want with them to eat them, breed them and kill them in such horrible conditions qualify as insane.
Let me take all your dogs and fatten them up in cages and then slaughter them and make sausages and hamburgers out of them and you eat your dog tomorrow for breakfast.
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