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wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Apr 13, 2016 - 05:12pm PT
I agree with Gary,what are we going to do ,

Borrow money from China to keep them in check?

Really.

As far as agreeing with NA.

"What is the right amount of Defense?"

"I don't envy the people who have to make the hard choices in our world."

Those are two I could not agree more with.

Now,in addition ,Do you think this Yankee Senator is Soft?

Obama believes in diplomacy first.Why is it so terrible that Bernie does as well?

I think he has some great ideas on how to get us out of this endless interventionist cycle that you so defend,or so it seems.

Placing responsibility on nations close to these conflicts,even if sanctions are necessary,would create less of a burden on The United States of America.

I am going to school for Environmental Engineering,as if that has anything to do with this.





Norton

Social climber
Apr 13, 2016 - 05:16pm PT
Fructose........

thanks for posting those betting odds web sites!
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 13, 2016 - 07:52pm PT
That seems a curious statement to me, considering the New Deal was singularly unsuccessful in ending the Great Depression. Similarly, the Great Society foundered just about the time I got out of college looking for work.

The New Deal was in effect until the mid-70s when they started tearing it down. There was more general prosperity than there is today. The Great Society foundered in 1974, just when I was looking for work, after 6 years of Republican rule.

The GI bill, on the other hand, had a real positive effect on social mobility, because of the nearly universal male involvement in the military. That's where I part company with many of my fellow conservatives. I think we, as a society, invest way too little in public post-secondary education, and particularly so in California.

Absolutely, neither do we do enough for our veterans. As a kid, it seemed as though all my male teachers were WWII veterans and schooled under the GI Bill.

When I was a freshman at Berkeley, we had no tuition whatsoever. (Well, at least none to the State of California's benefit. There was a specific, mandatory fee for certain Berkeley services (e.g. the Cowell Hospital and certain other Berkely-specific matters) but it was less than the cost of most of my textbooks. We were outraged when a tuition of $100/quarter was imposed in 1970-71. The expansion of student loans, and the bipartisan effort to make them nondischargable under the Bankruptcy Code, have mainly helped raise the cost of higher education and saddle recent graduates with crippling debt. I suspect that debt has been one more reason why the economy has performed so poorly.

Agreed. Our national priorities are all upside down.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Apr 13, 2016 - 08:32pm PT
I gotta watch more TV! Funny stuff:

[Click to View YouTube Video]
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 13, 2016 - 08:55pm PT
Trust me, you don't want Bernie as he'll be twice as disappointing as Obama with regard to all he is promising.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Apr 13, 2016 - 08:58pm PT
right, because we should have avoided Broke Obummer and just gone with McCain. What's the worst thing that could have happen?

And I mean hey, compared to Obummer Billary is a 90 degree tangent to everything he's fought for.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 13, 2016 - 09:16pm PT
Obama was the right choice against McCain, but the wrong choice as the dem nominee. Bernie will be in a far worse position to deliver anything he's talking about than Obama was at the start of his presidency. None of it's going to happen.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Apr 14, 2016 - 08:10pm PT
It was a good debate...IMO Bernie kicked some a## tonight VS Hillary
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 14, 2016 - 08:12pm PT
He lost by a mile.

"Senator Sanders, can you name one instance where Secretary Clinton was influenced by Wall St. money"?

<cue crickets>
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Apr 14, 2016 - 08:16pm PT
You could see it and hear it clearly in her closing speech, she could barely move her supporters to cheer for her until the very end.

Bernie hammered her on the exact issue that distinguishes them...she is financially supported by Special Interests (Wall St, Phamra, FF industry, etc) and he isn't
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 14, 2016 - 08:19pm PT
The debate was in Brooklyn, his hometown. His young supporters were excitable. But she won on substance. She killed him on guns. Badly. And when asked to supply an instance where she was influenced by Wall St, his signature argument, he drew a blank.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Apr 14, 2016 - 08:27pm PT
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Apr 14, 2016 - 08:28pm PT
Here let me get really worked up over this voluntary internet poll I hear those are extremely scientific.

Sanders peeps are going to say he won. Clintonites will say she won. Everyone is full of sh#t.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Apr 14, 2016 - 08:31pm PT
Here is anotherhttp://time.com/4295443/democratic-debate-ninth-bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-who-won/



Keep an eye on it,it is realtime.

Just like Hillary,it will change positions.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Apr 14, 2016 - 08:43pm PT
Both polls show about the same results 84% Bern 16% Hillary...but I agree, these polls don't mean sh*t...the NY primary results on Tues will tell

Why won't Hillary release the transcript to her Goldman Sachs speech?
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Apr 14, 2016 - 08:49pm PT
Because it would be the end of her campaign.

Heck ,she can't even answer a question about it.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 14, 2016 - 10:21pm PT
By delegate count it's already over given what the remaining big states are.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Apr 14, 2016 - 10:30pm PT
assuming clinton doesn't get charged with anything, and bernie's slow motion but otherwise inevitable defeat comes to fruition, i suspect there will be many who will say that it was america that wasn't ready for bernie.

and this is probably in part true.

at the same time i'd argue it will also have been due to bernie not being ready for america.

i get the sense that he's spent too many decades being on the outside looking in and because of that, too much of the time he still sees himself as an outsider. there's too much anger rather than humour in his sarcasm, too much defensiveness rather than leader-like dismissal in his rebuttals...

in general he too often comes off as a get off my lawn old grandpa rather than as a potential leader of the "free world".

the point being while america may not be ready for his policies, i'm not convinced that bernie has shown himself to be emotionally ready to be a leader at the level of president of the u.s. of a.

and i don't believe the majority of people when push comes to shove vote based primarily on policy: they vote based on their guts.



this video of obama in 2008 is a perfect illustration of one of the major reasons why he was able to defeat ms. clinton:

[Click to View YouTube Video]

just as this video, is for me, a perfect illustration of one of the major reasons why bernie is not going to be able to beat as flawed of a candidate as the 2016 version of ms. clinton is:

[Click to View YouTube Video]



these two very different ways of dealing with the same type of bullshit that clinton always mucks about in, are unfortunately for america, in all likelihood, going to contribute to two very different results.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 14, 2016 - 11:45pm PT
Again, a democratic president isn't going to be pushing any kind of agenda, let alone a progressive one. No, they're going to be fighting a war of attrition. And in that war it will be way better to have a pragmatic realist in the oval office who's been drug around the block behind a pickup over rocks and cactus a few times than one proffering more hope and change that isn't going to materialize.

I do get it, though, I truly do, particularly for the young ones graduating high school and college from 2008 on - kids my daughter's age. It's been a hellish go for that generation and they are understandably and justifiably sick of it. They could stand to have some hopes and dreams come true. But, without control of the congress, now is not that time and they're still in for a bit of a rough ride because of it and I don't want to see them end up totally disappointed and disillusioned with a Sanders administration unable to deliver on its promises just like Obama.

And the most effective fighters in the next round of that war aren't going to be found in the fringe-right or progressive-left trenches; no, they're going to be the ones out there in the no man's land in-between crawling on their bellies through the mud and barbed wire with a knife in their teeth. Personally, I'm not looking for promises, I'm not looking for hope, I'm not looking for innocence or clean hands - hell, I'm not even looking for integrity - I'm looking for the nastiest, most ruthless bitch around because that is the true landscape of our divided government for the next four years.

A completely soul-sucking message I know, but it's also the unfortunate reality we are facing and one which can't be ignored or wished away.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 15, 2016 - 05:53am PT
It was still a good, hard debate. Imagine doing this? Trying to find differences to contrast to voters when you know, privately, you agree on the majority of issues. Obama and Hillary went after each other, then made up and she joined his cabinet. I hope Hillary and Bernie do the same. I am sure they will. Even if they don't like each other much at the moment.
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