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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin' place
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How in the world is having jesus as my best friend bad for the progress of society.
In a lot of ways, because it's not just you.
If someone decides to not vaccinate her children because Jesus will protect them, the children might not get sick; no problem. But if enough people believe the same and do the same, it can be bad for the rest of society when they get sick, get others sick and delay the day when that pathogen is eliminated.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Dr. F,
Mark 9:19 KJV
"He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you?"
Jesus said this. Spot on right about now.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Wanda, you're reaching and stretching if that is the only example you could come up with. I had all 4 of our kids get every shot etc. recommended.
Today the only two people I personally know that have not have their kids immunized are neither jesus followers.
Why not discuss rather how jesus has been the main impetus in my life for helping others and my planet and myself. Peace and Joy (which he gives me also), lynne
PS, and why do you keep moving the topic from individuals (a known quantity) to the general (unknown) public ?
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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I mentioned before on other Threads, Dr. F, if it weren't for jesus I would have most likely been dead in a gutter from a drug overdose or worse at age 22. The not real and immaterial jesus literally saved my life. It was not me. I could not even begin to save myself. I was in fact destroying yo. :D
And he didn't just save me, he saved my marriage which went on for 39 years. Jess sayin'
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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See, they're even coming in from outter space to hear the good news. Hahahaha. Hey, we need humor....even if mine's not that grate. lynnie
EDIT: Not Fair, Cintune, you changed the picture. :(
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Cintune,
What is there to believe? They're here.
Richard Dolan: UFOs and the National Security State
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veQ-LCjDCAc
However, you don't want to worship them or really "believe" in them. Bad stuff man. Fallen Angels, Nephalim, Demons can not be trusted.
Believe in God.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Dr. F, I am certainly not stuck. Like any healthy relationship that grows and gets deeper as time goes on and you learn more about one another, so with my best friend, jesus.
For example, I used to be really selfish and self centered. I am alot less today. Just because jesus is my best friend does not mean I do not grow and learn. I love science, math for me is tricky, I have even changed how I feel about politics and the party I belong to. I note in a much deeper way that we are here first to help our fellow people around us .... Not to lay up treasures here on earth that will eventually rot and we can't take with us when we die.
What's wrong with that ? Also got involved with Greg Mortenson's Project and I could go on. I think, actually, I am growing as a human being. I wish you could have been at the Bachar Memorial in C4. The theme said it well. Love and Community. Lynnie
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 8, 2009 - 07:02pm PT
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cintune, I just can't stop laughing
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jstan
climber
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"Wanda, you're reaching and stretching if that is the only example you could come up with."
I'll take a cut at it with what I think is a simple one. (It won't be of course. Nothing is simple in a 2000 year old argument.)
We hear a lot about "end times" when all the faithful will be called to heaven and all temporal problems become solved. It is even possible for the faithful to think no effort is required here on earth, since that is the prospect. Indeed the closer we think we are to end times the less need for us to do anything.
In fact "end times" is a handy thing to grab when you just don't want to face a problem. It is a crutch.
Now Lynne you may not believe in end times and you are entirely willing to work to solve today's problems independently of faith. If that is true then you should be going out to others who are faithful and trying to convince them end times is one thing they should not be believing. Not all that is in the bible or is said to be in the bible, should be believed.
But this is not the behavior of a "believer". Believers just believe. They do not pick and choose.
And therein is the danger. A coda existing 2000 years ago that requires perfect obedience is not going to serve us well in all the unexpected situations we face today.
We have to choose for today based upon today's demands.
Now many things taught 2000 and even more years ago are very good and useful today. What is not helpful are all of the histories, folk tales, and prohibitions imposed upon believers. IMPOSED. IMO many of those are just strategies employed during past centuries allowing the church to gain obedience among the faithful and the secular power that comes with that obedience.
All of that needs to be thrown away and the basic ideas restated and followed when they have merit.
When they have merit.
George Carlin summed it up well when he advised those gaining peace and confidence from their faith. He said,
"You are paying too high A PRICE."
He did not say what he clearly wanted to say. To wit,
Suck it up and do it on your own!
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jstan
climber
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With regards to a post of yours submitted while I was doing my thesis above.
"I am growing as a human being. I wish you could have been at the Bachar Memorial in C4. The theme said it well. Love and Community."
Lynne, we always have to pick and choose. You may have sensed love and community was the theme, because that is what you wanted to believe. I sensed something you also expressed, "Live your dream", was the real theme. The roar when someone suggested everyone quit their job tells us what the theme really was. That was where everyone really was.
In the comments you asked me to make I tried to advance a counterpoint. I said we do not know all of the wonderful things we each will bring about so long as we are still breathing. So it was I told the assembled it was their duty to themselves and to us
to complete their route.
It can't be left unfinished.
I'll end with a simple question. Knowing all that we now know, which would we prefer.
To have John where he is now?
Or to have him still here with us?
Everyone of us has this duty.
Without that duty, we have no community.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Dell Cross wrote: "Largo, this is the second time in this thread I've noticed you are quoting another source without attribution."
Jeebus, what am I, back in grad school. I read stuff constantly and save for a time anything interesting, especially stuff I might disagree with - like deterministic materialism.
But hey, I can start listing attributions, though I'd like the random shite I post here to stand or sink on it's own merit, not on it being quantified via attributions.
JL
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WBraun
climber
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Dr Failed -- "but some of us don't stop at GO, we keep going till we get stopped by the limits of the mind and human understanding."
Oh bullsh'it ... you're still standing at start. When you gonna start going?
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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John Long,
A friend just turned me onto an interesting book. Since you're a great story teller thought I'd send this quote your way. "A story is a character who wants something and overcomes conflict to get it." Book is, "Blue Like Jazz", I believe, written by Donald Miller. Peace, Lynne
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MH2
climber
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I know that there are religious folk and even so-called creationists among us, if not here then nearby, but I am truly surprised to find an Animist, albeit one who couches the belief in quantum mechanics.
On an old TV show they once explored "women's intuition". They had a scientist who was asked by one of the believers, "But isn't it possible that there are forces we are not aware of?"
He answered, "Yes, that is possible, but if so, we are unaware of them."
I wouldn't call that materialism, just pragmatism.
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WBraun
climber
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Ari, probable life appearance view of Ardipithecus ramidus.
Probable means speculation as they ultimately do not know. Theory.
4.4 million years ago they say. Still they can't even remember or know WTF they did 2 days ago.
And still the "so called scientists" have no clue ultimately why we even exist and our real purpose in life is. TODAY
No ... they want us to study a monkey instead.
In Darwin’s theory there is no acceptance of the living entity as spirit soul, and therefore his explanation of evolution is incomplete.
Their only answers are mere hypothesis, theories, mental speculations, and guesses based on dead material bones, DNA, which are material.
They ULTIMATELY do not know. How can any sane person BELIEVE and have FAITH in such a process.
Their answer is always, in the future we will probably know.
The truth and full absolute knowledge is always present in full in the past present and the future. It always remains the truth eternally.
Summon Bonum
Their method is the ascending process of a gaining knowledge. A person may be a great academician, scholar or professor, but he cannot speculate and expect to understand the Absolute Truth, for his senses are limited.
If we are in the darkness of night, we may attempt to attain the sunlight by ascending in a powerful rocket. The descending process, however, we simply await the sunrise, and then we understand immediately.
The last two sentences are most likely way to simple for a complex technocrat person overburdened by huge quantities of relative and/or hypothetical truths.
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WBraun
climber
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The doctrine of evolution, the science of anthropology is not new.
This knowledge has existed since the Vedic time, and all these sequences are disclosed in Vedic literature.
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WBraun
climber
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I think Darwin would be the first to concede ....
Here you are speculating again ... "I think"
If you feel that the vedic truths are speculations and total bullsh'it then so be it. That's your speculations again. Go ahead and you prove it wrong.
Not my problem, yours.
Again, I'm not your mother, you do the work.
Even the Vedas acknowledge "Christ" as bonafide.
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