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Paul_in_Van
Trad climber
Near Squampton
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Mar 18, 2009 - 11:55pm PT
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So sad. RIP Woody Stark.
My thoughts are with all his loved ones from the many facets of his life and legacy.
Paul
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Mar 19, 2009 - 12:44am PT
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Well, ST and RC are set up differently, by design. They each have their plusses and minuses, particular adherents, etc. The one thing RC does have (and ST does not) is specific forums where discussions are categorized. RC clearly differentiates between "Memorial" posts which serve to eulogize a fallen friend and "Accident Analysis" posts which attempt to figure out what might have led to a particular accident. This was done specifically at RC so that speculative comments, related to an accident (that some might find insensitive) would not be posted together with the eulogies.
Curt
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tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
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Mar 19, 2009 - 12:54am PT
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Woody is missed. My thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends.
Curt. ST is a campfire. People sitting around it lost a friend. Respect that.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Mar 19, 2009 - 12:56am PT
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So there's no speculation on RC 'analysis' threads, Curt? There's no idiotic noob's saying what "should've been done if I was there?".
I'm not trying to be a dick, Curt, I'm just sayin' climbers always second guess and criticize. We're trying to minimize that here. It's a climbers nature to do the analysis because we try to overcome problems.
The man who died was a friend of many. We just want to wait and get a full account before everybody and their gym-climber start to criticize what happend.
Be patient, you'll get the details.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Mar 19, 2009 - 12:57am PT
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The Gov. report reads:
Mr. Stark was the lead climber on the Great Burrito rock formation and was being followed by Alfred Kuok. Experiencing difficulty with his climb, Stark began to descend. During the descent he lost his grip and fell. As he fell, Stark struck Alfred Kuok causing him to fall as well. Mr. Kuok’s protection held arresting his fall, but Curtis Stark continued to fall suffering fatal head injuries when he struck the ground. It is estimated Stark fell about 100 feet."
Though I'm sure the errors in this report were totally unintentional, it shows how badly things can go when an anaylsis is rushed and prepared by someone with a limited understanding of how belay systems functionally work. Until a reliable source describes the accident with all the details clearly stated, there is no chance at forensic accuracy, or even anything that makes sense.
JL
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Mar 19, 2009 - 01:03am PT
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"...So there's no speculation on RC 'analysis' threads, Curt? There's no idiotic noob's saying what "should've been done if I was there?"..."
I believe what I pointed out is that RC separates the "speculative" posts (which go in the "Accident Analysis" forum) from the eulogizing posts which are posted elsewhere. That's really the only point I was trying to make.
And, I'm not talking about "here," I'm talking about "there."
Curt
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Mar 19, 2009 - 01:06am PT
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"...Curt...
and your POINT at POINTING that out here is WHAT again???..."
Sorry, I was following up on klk's earlier post that perhaps RC was a better forum to look into what happened.
Curt
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Mar 19, 2009 - 01:10am PT
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Curt, just wait for TGT's report.
Again, I'm not trying to be a dick, just wait.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Mar 19, 2009 - 01:15am PT
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No. Neither you nor bluering are being dicks. I understand and respect your opinions and feelings completely. I'm also very sad about your loss.
Curt
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Mar 19, 2009 - 01:25am PT
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Addressing the information controversy. Eventually what happened will be made known. Why does not someone that knows and loves Woody put this out for the general public to note.
Even if it is not perfect for what transpired....it does not matter. No human Is perfect in every act on this planet. Woodie more than obviously gave his life 100%. This man inspired Many. I wanted to climb with him....and I am a climbing safety freak.
Cheers to the Woodster and all the love and inspiration he Gave to people, climbing and life on this planet. Peace, Lynnie
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ninjakait
Trad climber
a place where friction routes have velcro
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Mar 19, 2009 - 01:43am PT
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Hey kids,
I understand all of your speculation and curiosity about my father. Please let us get the man buried before the vultures can swarm down any more.
Thanks.
-Tia
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Mar 19, 2009 - 01:55am PT
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We understand that, Tia, all of us here!
We're just tryin to keep the other sites respectable.
We love ya, Tia.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Mar 19, 2009 - 02:07am PT
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Tia, you're obviously a smart woman. Don't let people's speculation and thoughts get you down. There will be some idiots who will judge your Dad. There are a lot of people who respected you Dad. Those who respected your Dad outweigh the idiots by a large margin....
The latin saying is illegitimi non carborundum ....
That means, don't let the fools bring you down...remember that!
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Mar 19, 2009 - 09:04am PT
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condolences to all Woody's friends and family members. he was an inspiring character in many regards, and i'm sorry i never got a chance to meet him at the crag.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Mar 19, 2009 - 10:12am PT
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As climbers, we all naturally want to know what happened in any accident. We hope that knowledge will help to prevent our own catastrophes from occurring. Especially in a case like this. My thoughts are that if this can happen to Woody, what chance do I have to survive this sport?
But we can wait, as Tia says, out of respect for Woody and his family.
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Crimpergirl
Social climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Mar 19, 2009 - 10:34am PT
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Lots of natural human behavior here. Lots of shock and grieving and sadness. Clearly natural behavior. Lots of wondering 'what happened??' It is often one of the first things that people ask when a tragedy happens. Natural human behavior.
I see no vultures here - just hurting people. Gratuitous vulture like behavior would be squashed in a second here at the taco.
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just passing thru
climber
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Mar 19, 2009 - 11:03am PT
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"I understand all of your speculation and curiosity about my father. Please let us get the man buried before the vultures can swarm down any more."
This thread went from heartfelt to grim in record time.
'but we need to analyze the situation so we can learn from it'
Truly pathetic, have some respect.
RIP Woody
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craig mo
Trad climber
L.A. Ca.
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Mar 19, 2009 - 11:53am PT
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Woody was the real deal
I would have liked to climb with you
Rest in peace.
Craig
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Mar 19, 2009 - 02:02pm PT
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Climbing Accidents happen. Its the nature of the sport. Given the right chain of events tragedy occurs. The Best climbers and worst climbers make mistakes, or sh#t just happens. I myself have been very lucky that when I did screw up backup systems came into play.
No one is to blame. Climbing is dangerous or we would no do it.
God's Speed Woody.
Juan
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KyleO
Ice climber
Calgary, AB
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Mar 19, 2009 - 02:08pm PT
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Pancho and Lefty - Willie and Merle
Living on the road my FRIEND, is gonna keep you FREE and CLEAN.
Now you wear your skin like iron, and your breath is hard as kerosene.
You weren't your mama's only boy, but her favourite one it seems.
She began to cry when you said goodbye, and sank into your DREAMS.
Pancho was a BANDIT BOY, his horse was fast as polished steel.
He wore his gun outside his pants, for all the honest world to feel.
Pancho met his match, you know, on the deserts down in Mexico.
Nobody heard his dying words; ah, but that's the way it goes.
All the Federales say,
They could have had him any day.
They only let him slip away,
Out of kindness, I suppose.
Lefty, he can't sing the blues all night long like he used to.
The dust that Pancho bit down south ended up in Lefty's mouth.
The day they laid poor Pancho low, Lefty split for Ohio.
Where he got the bread to go, there ain't nobody knows.
All the Federales say,
They could have had him any day.
They only let him slip away,
Out of kindness, I suppose.
The POETS tell how Pancho fell, and Lefty's living in cheap hotels.
The desert's quiet, Cleveland's cold, and so the story ends we're told.
Pancho needs your prayers it's true, but save a few for Lefty too.
He only did what he had to do, and now he's growing old.
(All the Federales say,
They could have had him any day.)
They only go so long,
Out of kindness, I suppose.
A few grey Federales say
They could have had him any day.
They only let him go so long,
Out of kindness, I suppose.
Hey Woody, I never met ya but I was in JTree for the first time last month and I got to climb routes you put up so many years ago. The first route I hopped on when I arrived was Dogleg, such a beautiful route. Cheers bro, rest well.
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