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nita
climber
chica from chico, I don't claim to be a daisy
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Oct 30, 2008 - 10:53pm PT
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I really didn't want to bring this thread back up but I was so moved at my friend's wedding yesterday that I wish to quote the words my husband spoke at the ceremony.
"J and I were friends and co-workers more than 24 years ago in Yosemite. In 1984 we both met the loves of our lives there. Before the decade was over; my love, Nita and I exchanged wedding vows and, like J & J, we are still together.
I remember when Nita and I went to our city courthouse to legally bind us together without a thought that some did not have the freedom to marry the one they love, knowing the love that J & J have shared with each other for these 24 years has been as enduring as ours.
With the passing of years and our beloved pets, we often find ourselves gauging our relationship with other friends who have been together as long.......so now that leaves J & J.
So it is with great warmth, love, joy and pleasure to stand here today to express Nita's and my love and appreciation to both of you. We are So HAPPY!!!!
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dirtbag
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 30, 2008 - 11:08pm PT
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Nice Nita. That's what it's all about.
To the Pro 8 people:
Being able to marry means a lot to a lot of people who are different than you are.
Some of you say you have gay friends. Are you prepared to say, to their faces, that they aren't good enough to be married, to enjoy the same rights you enjoy? Are you prepared to tell them, to their faces, that you think you are better people than they are?
Because that is exactly what you will be saying when you step in the booth and vote for prop 8.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Oct 31, 2008 - 02:24pm PT
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I think people have spoken well enough on this topic, so let me ask about the "OT -- King James" thread.
I'm curious about the statement that the KJV essentially introduced badness into the Bible. What were the translation errors that bring this about?
I must confess that whenever I hear people quoting (and often literally thumping) from the KJV, my knee jerks in opposition, but I was unaware of any gross translating errors.
The rendering of the Tetragammaton as "LORD" rather than "YHWH" seems quite interesting. I'm curious how it's rendered in ancient biblical translations (which is a confession that I'm unfamiliar with the Septuagint, the Vulgate, the Armenian "Astvadzeeshoontz," etc.) Anyone know?
John
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Oct 31, 2008 - 02:29pm PT
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Why shouldn't they be as miserable as everyone else? Serves 'em right, i say.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Oct 31, 2008 - 04:15pm PT
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8 = HATE
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Oct 31, 2008 - 04:33pm PT
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Wes,
You are correct. I was referring to the "bad stuff about homosexuality" to use the words earlier in this thread; I was just too lazy to quote the whole thing, for which I now get my just punishment. In any case, I had (and have) more interest in the historical translation of the Tetragammaton.
John
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Oct 31, 2008 - 05:52pm PT
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Domingo- The KJB introduced the concept of Jesus as Monarch across the board as I understand it. It's the first place that he was referred to as King or Lord and other monarchical references were made. My friend has a PHD in theology and she doesn't allow the KJB in her classrooms because it is such a departure from every other text.
Also: MY MARRIAGE IS ON THE ROCKS VOTE YES ON PROP 8 TO SAVE IT
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Buckwheat
Big Wall climber
No. Cal
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The American people have a right to create any law that we deem good for society. A we have a right to vote no on any law. People like dirtbag spewing hate will never change this. Marriage is about one man and one woman having a family creating stability. What after gay marriage?? Brother and sister, man and sheep, man and a 5 year old girl???? Get over it gays can do whatever in there own privacy and have equal rights and benifits, leave well enough alone.
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Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
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I always find it interesting reading the sh#t that passes for Bibles... it's all translated from the original languages with an agenda. Have an objective scholar translate a few chapters of verse and you'll see what I mean.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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hmmmmm...according to polling data, white people in cali narrowly voted against prop 8 and black people overwhelmingly voted for it...now, following typical ST logic, dirt's a racist because he thinks black people suck
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wilcox510
climber
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"Marriage is about one man and one woman having a family creating stability." According to whom? You and the Bible? I personally don't care what an ancient book written by humans (not God)who needed something to believe in says about the matter. I just don't understand how gays getting married affects any homophobic couples. Will you suddenly not be able to reproduce because the concept of marriage has been tainted? Will God strike us all down (not that I believe there is a God). Your prejudices and fears should not keep others from becoming happy, particularly because IT DOES NOT AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY!
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setherbugs
Boulder climber
Leuven, Belgium
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You know what, I think all people should be able to use whatever restrooms they feel most comfortable using as well. Why discriminate? When I'm feeling manly I'll go to the men's and when I'm feeling sensitive, I'll go to the women's.
Gay's wanting to get married makes a mockery of what marriage was created to be, and now finally "officially" is according to the Constitution of California thanks to the vote of the people of California, the union of one man and one women. I know it's hard for gays to comprehend this, but the people take offense at gays wanting to be married, because that is not what marriage was ever meant to be. If you want to be leagally recognized as a couple, I'm sure you can get a law passed to do so, but PLEASE, stop trying to ruin marriage!
It's a shame that a law that's been on the books for all these years finally needs to be clarified because people can no longer discerns things for themselves.
It would not have been a civil right taken away except for the California Supreme court made the mistake of making a liberal judgement. Now everyone is up in arms because that temporary right (which everyone knew was temporary) is gone and rightfully so.
There is nothing stopping gays for making a life commitment to each other, they just can't call it marriage, because that's not what marriage is!
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sirloin of leisure
Big Wall climber
boise,id
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I'm sick of hearing about the poor queers all the time..boo hooo
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sirloin of leisure
Big Wall climber
boise,id
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by the way,I despise religeon,queers just creep me out a bit,like wandering eyes,hair lips,super fat people,and tucker tech.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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wilcox, making some people "happy" (especially a small % of people) is not a good enough reason to make a new law, especially one that will destroy a tradition that has served humanity for millenia...tell me, if homosexuals can have all the legal rights of marriage through civil unions, why isn't that good enough? civil unions prove that homosexuals have been accepted by society, but same-sex marriage demands society's approval...maybe in a hundred years, but not now
also, your claim that it won't affect me is impossible to prove; you have no way of predicting how same-sex marriage will affect society, which has a huge affect on ME...consider the no-fault divorce, designed to make people happy who were unhappy in their marriage; the no-fault divorce has had no direct effect on me (my parents will celebrate 50 years next month), but the effects on marriage have been devastating because it reduces marriage to a contract that lacks the binding power of the typical gym membership; the effects on society are visible through the 50% divorce rate, emotionally traumatized kids, single-parent homes, etc...
even in a entirely secular society, some things should be preserved as sacred...marriage is one of those things
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Discrimination is discrimination plane and simple, no excuse for it and reason for it.
I'm not sure, because I didn't live in that time, and I have not done the research to back up what I'm about to say, but I seem to remember that there was a law in place that made it illegal for a White to marry a Black.
If we are fair in our assessment of these things, we will see that there was no reason for it.
Years from now, those of you that voted to block gay/lesbian marriage will have will have to answer to your grandchildren who may look at you with disdain, asking you the same question..."Why?"
This world could be a better place.
I've relaxed my grip on things that I think I can control in this life because I love my life, and I can let it go.
Too bad more people don't just let it go....
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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I keep reading how gay "marriages" will destroy traditional marriages, or undermine their sacred value, and how this is all a huge threat to straight folk, but I haven't yet read how any of this treat is supposed to play out and how it's going to taint my marriage or mean any damn thing to me or mine? HOW is this threat supposed to materialize?
Come on . . .
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sirloin of leisure
Gym climber
X
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first they send out the gay ninjas,it progresses from there you see...
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