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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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There really will be no political negative from Franken resigning the Senate.
Minnesota Democratic Governor Mark Dayton will appoint a Democrat who will be just as supportive of Democratic policies and votes as Franken in the Senate.
The only loss will be on the committees Franken serves on, but he will be replaced by another Democrat.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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gotta agree with Mei on this.
the man owned up to every allegation, addressed them all, refuses to respond with blanket denials. If the Dems cannot understand the degrees of difference between, say, badgering girls under 16 from the photo-op grazed buttocks, or the ability of Mr. Franken to respond sensibly when a woman says no to "aggressive/forcible kissing" then the Dems can sink and slither and slide and fail like they have done for the past, uhh, nearly two decades, well then let 'em keep on keepin' on....LOSING.
yeah Norton, NO, there is a lasting political effect. It's called public opinion. Accepting responsibility LOSES confidence. Yes it is honorable to "do the right thing" here.
Do you notice any difference from the Republican strategy of deny, deny, deny, "those bitches are scheming political operatives," etc.?
The sick, divided, talk-radio/Fox-poisoned court of public opinion (overall) sees Franken as worse than Moore or Trump.
Let it burn.
F*#k the Dems, f*#k their lame limp-dick strategy of taking the highroad. It never worked* in the past, it will not work this time.
*in the sense of political machination
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Really? We're talking about a House and Senate that refuse to address the bragart'ed sex assaults of the POTUS. Def disagree with you DMT, but I wish I thought you were correct.
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dirtbag
climber
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I’m glad he is resigning.
Meanwhile:
I’m allowed to go in because I’m the owner of the pageant, and therefore I’m inspecting it…they’re standing there with no clothes, ‘Is everybody okay?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that”
“women”-ha.
That’s our president, bragging about how he can barge into dressing rooms where half-naked miss teen USA contestants were dressing.
That dirty old man has gotten a pass.
“Drain the swamp”: what a pathetic joke.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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right dirtbag, and yet.....it seems that our staunch and morally superior Democrats in the house colluded in the massive failure to impeach yesterday.....
so, yeah, not so sure why I (or anyone) should care about a Dem less at the levers of political sausage grinding.
Again, as Rutger Hauer said in the finest American film of the 1990s, "Let it burn"
Flynn's testimony will never put any of the Drumpfs in jail, and so our best hope is to get the f*#ker out now. And yet Pelosi and Hoyer and the whole house kinda, uhh, said this, yesterday: "now is not the time to consider articles of impeachment."
So when is the time? Should I keep crossing my fingers that Bobby Three Sticks will put together the puzzle by year 7 of the Drumpfness? Or should I just keep rock climbing and spreading Pussy Proclamations? I prefer the latter, as it requires less investment of hope, less serious consideration of GTFO'ing, etc. And watching people pull the sheet off their windshield, read and look around in disgust is pretty damn entertaining anyway.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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any reasonable person that gives a damn about confronting sexual abuse and predatory behavior by men.....I mean, c'mon, the dude SAID THAT.
Where is our legislature? We know damn sure that the churches, the electorate, no one else is going to do anything about it.
And yet.... "now is not the time..."
F*#k the Dems. And F*#k Franken too for shorting us on this...
And with respect, DMT, chipping away at the stone has been the modus of the Ms. crowd since, say, 1965. Don't see much progress that way. TRUNDLE THAT SH#T
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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the man owned up to every allegation, addressed them all, refuses to respond with blanket denials
That's not what I heard in his speech today.
But in responding to their claims, I also wanted to be respectful of that broader conversation because all women deserve to be heard and their experiences taken seriously. I think that was the right thing to do. I also think it gave some people the false impression that I was admitting to doing things that in fact I haven’t done. Some of the allegations against me are simply not true. Others I remember very differently. I said at the outset that the Ethics Committee was the right venue for these allegations to be heard and investigated and evaluated on their merits, that I was prepared to cooperate fully and that I was confident in the outcome.
If that statement is truthful he should not have resigned.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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My point is that Franken does not offer blanket denial. My point is that yielding power to, effectively trading seats with, a sick anti-constitutionalist child predator does nothing besides earn some imaginary brownie points.
kudos Dems, maybe there'll be a Merit ribbon for it. The Belly Up Badge, or maybe the Badder Men Win Badge.
Does no one in the House understand that realism is the f*#king way of the world? Or do they, like Ivanka and Jared, hold cash/influence/power closer than morals?
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John M
climber
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I thought some of his resignation speech was good, but also thought his "not remembering it that way" was convenient. He liked to grab women's asses. He should have come clean. Though I do understand that people blocking out the memory of ones own bad behavior is common.
We are in a strange time. To stand for a principle, then you have to clean house. And sometimes the good gets thrown out with the bad.
the best way forward is to come clean, and then the people can decide if they believe that there is a change of behavior and attitude, or not.
I wish that the republicans would require that of their people too.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Sure, you have a point DMT. I am a child of Reagan. It just seems like maybe, uhh, not enough progress has been achieved. Witness the: "you can do whatever you want" [to women] POTUS. I'd call that a backslide over the ERA-signer in office in '65.
Sure LBJ pissed in a sink while dictating a statement to a woman on a typewriter, sure he philandered and f*#ked and cheated. But he never made claims, visible to our pubescent males, that "you can do whatever you want."
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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I'm not talking about standing for a principle John M, I'm talking about ceasing to lose.
No one cares that the House vote was landslide in favor of retaining our sex-abuser in chief?
seems to me John (respectfully) that you place a lot of stock in the *wish* that we all played nice, politically. seems to me John (again, just shooting the sh#t here) that you have a lot more faith in "the people" than I do.
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John M
climber
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I have more faith in God, then the people. I believe that things will come right, but that right now we are in terrible times as God is allowing us to reap what we have sown. So we get a commander in chief who is despicable. But that is because we have allowed terrible behaviors. By "we", I don't mean necessarily you, but the greater we of we the people.
I see hope in the fact that women are finally being able to speak out in large enough numbers that things are changing. But I also realize that change sometimes happens slowly and it certainly doesn't happen all at once. There are people who are completely stuck in poor behavior. And their are others who are blind. I do though attribute some of women's willingness to speak up to the election of Trump. His over the top treatment and belittling of women is in part the straw that broke the camel's back. So even in bad, good things can come about. Its sad that we still need to learn lessons this way. but I still see people learning. As they become the majority, then we will see better leaders. Until then, we have to suffer through leaders like Trump.
I'm not surprised that Trump was not impeached. Though you and I find him disgusting, much of our leadership is still beholden to money and the power mongers, and until a law is proven broken, he won't be impeached.
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Mei
Trad climber
mxi2000.net
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He liked to grab women's asses. He should have come clean.
That's what I don't believe. One woman accused him for grabbing her from behind after she stood in line for a photo op with him (taken by her husband) at a state fair before he was elected a senator. Another woman accused him for cupping her breast after she stood in line for a photo op with him on a USO tour and all the photo she could produce was one where his hand was firmly on her back and did not appear to be elastic enough to be able to extend all the way around her side to reach her front.
These are events where there were many eye witnesses (they waited in line to have photo taken!), no power intimidation at play that would have prevented the women from speaking out right then and there, and an on-the-spot accusation would have done damage to his image for what he was doing at the moment. Because of that, I believe whatever those women accused him of now was not his intention then, and might not even be true.
His jokes of poor taste and sometimes overly-tight hugs do not put him in a worse category than all the men I have met whose eyes follow a hot chick who happens to be walking by, oftentimes mid-conversation and without their own realization that they are doing it. I doubt many (or most) man who post here hold a higher moral ground than Mr. Franken.
The reason I participate in this thread is because I'm fearing the power of #metoo movement for the future of the country. It can be exploited, and it has been.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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^ and I really think that Franken's atypical rise to power (less beholden to moneybags, etc) irritates those that were installed in power by traditional flesh-pressing, backdeal room-making, etc. He scared them too much. But....how do you know he ain't stretch grope-arm? ;-)
John M: I appreciate your response. Too bad Dog allows us to reap what DT and other sick f*#ks have sown. Seems a lot like DT, this Dog of yours. A masterful, caring/uncaring creature for whose approval and assistance we all pine, us not caring about neglect, just happy for a pat on the back, a recognition from that great Divine above.
And truly (strangely similarly), my mistress, Earth, commands such fealty. Yet I think she's been around a lot longer than Dog, DT, you or me, and actually exerts a fundamental dynamic control of longer lasting (and verifiably observable, heh!) outcomes.
Yes, Mei, the strategy of the dogs of discord, the players of Putin, is like a shitty HS football team. Steal the playbook of the other team and turn it around on them. This strategy works. Witness Jeff Sessions, the racist in charge of the delectably oxymoronic DoJ.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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I agree with Mei, but I still think the only. Course open to him was to reign,
Had he stayed the reactionary right would have used it to justify the sexual sins of there side.and yes, they are of a higher magnitude of depravity
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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sure, sure, Jaybro. I hear you. The thing is that we let the Clinton thing slide all these years so they still have that sick (wonderful!) sexophonist to lord over us.
you either gotta beat 'em at their own game, or follow the moral White Unicorn into impossibility-ville (how the hell would we beat the "moral majority" when we have skeletons like Monica et al in our closet) and hope that our shining white steed wins over the set-in-stone anti-dem set that we have doused all over America.
The answer is a new party, a UNITY party. Kasich is repugnant in one or two ways, for me. Nothing is perfect on our side of things. But let's all, please, please, just consider finding a middle ground, an imperfect but electable directorship, a flavorful and varied sandwich of ideology, a legislature that actually heeds the views of the electorate.
Hell, even Jody and I can agree on some things. I suspect that the Founding Fathers would rather we talked, spoke of our beliefs, TOGETHER, rather than stayed stuck diametrically opposed like some mudbogged mule and his cruel owner, with national administrative and legislative bodies just chugging along like the electorate is hunky-dory.
Let us not forget the anti-democratic actions of the College of Electors. Let us understand the meaning of the Electoral College, let us understand that their anti-mob-rule role has been inverted to a rule of a minority mob, aided and abetted by our bought-and-paid legislature. (Sorry Jody, heehee!)
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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Regarding the House vote to impeach President Trump
Although he resisted for weeks, Speaker of the House Paul Ryan agreed to let the Democrats have their vote
the vote was along part lines, every Republican who voted, voted no to impeach
and the Dems to impeach
it is understandable no Republicans want Trump to go through impeachment proceedings
given the daily media spot light on a fellow member of their political party
I am surprised that this early in Trumps' presidency that so many Dems stood up and voted to impeach, that can be a risky political move, quite possibly angering independents in their House districts along with all base Republicans and could cost them reelection
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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the vote was along part lines, every Republican who voted, voted no to impeach
and the Dems to impeach
NO! Factually untrue Norton.
Per this page, Pelosi, Hoyer, MOST OTHER DEMS (fully 1/3 of the House!), voted to table (quit) the impeachment measure quoted below
Resolved, That Donald John Trump, President of the United
States is unfit to be President .....
So yeah, f*#k
the Dems.
by kowtowing to the reelection boogeyman, they (and you Norton) really show the rotten meat, the broken dull tines, the parts that put sh#t in our food, in the sausagegrinder.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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We Must hold Trump to the same standard as Franken
As a man of zero integrity Trump will not rise to the standard. We should run with him that!
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Norton
climber
The Wastelands
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yes indeed, "fuk the Dems" for having gall to bring an impeachment vote up
and yes, and again fuk the dems because their House minority leaders did not agree with a number of the rank and file that now is a good time to do it
oh my, they just all should have voted to impeach if the dems had any guts
and fuk Norton for posting about this vote
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