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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jun 30, 2015 - 02:04pm PT
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Let's see BLUEBLORC....the 1.57 billion people who belong to the world's fastest growing religion think that the Quran is pretty special, and another 1 billion folks feel the same way about the Vedas. Members of the fastest growing religion in the USA swear by the Book of Mormon and whose to qestion Tom Cruise about Dianetics?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jun 30, 2015 - 02:08pm PT
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We need to look around for those who have spent 40,50,60+ yrs in Marriage and ask them; "What's most gratifying in Life?"
Well, there are certainly plenty of people who have spent many decades in marriage, but for many of them it's been in a sequence of marriages to different spouses.
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Jun 30, 2015 - 02:10pm PT
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This thread and the ignorance in it, make me very sad...
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Jun 30, 2015 - 02:25pm PT
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It's fascinating to see that bigots like klimmer actually believe that god had the poor taste to pick HIM for a spokesman.
Let me remind everyone that klimmer is the same sick fraud who betrayed the memory of the Jewish victims of the Holocaust by comparing their martyrdom to the SCOTUS ruling legalizing gay marriage. He was also incapable of admitting that it was a certainty that many of these innocent souls were also gay.
Klimmer, you don't just dishonour your Jewish roots, but your delusional fanaticism cheapens you as a human being.
Religious fanaticism is used to justify murder all over this planet and klimmer can easily be the poster boy used to justify yet another wave of murderous intolerance upon humanity.
The is no god represented by any rational religion on planet Earth that would view klimmer's values with anything other than shock, horror, and revulsion.
By the way, when I was in university, our Psychology profs used to teach us that the surest way to spot a closet homosexual was by the virulence of his professed hatred of them. With that awareness, perhaps some day we can expect to see klimmer modelling his new rainbow shirt for us.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 30, 2015 - 02:28pm PT
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We're losing the honor of committing to one spouse for a lifetime.
That's a moronic statement and even more ludicrous is the idea that marriage is required or even remotely necessary for one person to commit to another. Me and mine have been mated for twenty years and will die mated. And our mating isn't some one-time pomp and circumstances; we 'marry' each other every single day.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jun 30, 2015 - 02:31pm PT
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They are disingenuous; at best.
only in my presumption that a "we' still exists in america. i've seen it once or twice in my lifetime, only when faced with trajedy though. We all used to stand together and sing "America the Beautiful", but since that has the word god in it you'alls would rather sit and complain! Even around here in our little world of climbers, there isn't much we. America is hellbent on selling the "us" and "them" and the spirit of lndividualism. And that's fine and dandy, we, i mean you and i and him are bringing many truths to the forefront for the world to chew on:)
The American dream was never to be of one mind..
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jun 30, 2015 - 02:42pm PT
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Said Klimmer: "Sorry Largo is wrong. He doesn't understand Judaism and how the Jews and the Jewish prophets write."
In fact, Klimmer, I do. Part of attending the School of Theology in Claremont, Ca., was getting jiggy with biblical hermeneutics, an evaluation discipline that includes written, verbal, and nonverbal communication. Exegesis focuses primarily upon texts, and is the scholastic study of the Good Book. Judging by your comments I question if you have heard of either term, to say nothing to studying same - a requirement for any objective handling of the biblical cannon.
What you and a few others are rooting for is a literal interpretation, one often adopted by those who feel overmatched by a work full of nuance and symbol. A literalist (aka, a fundy, or fundamentailst) believes the bible can be "deciphered and grasped entirely by the plain meaning expressed by its linguistic construction and historical context.” That is, the intention of the authors is believed to correspond to the literal meaning.
For example, Jonah was a real man who actually spent time in the blue whale's tripe. Literally. And the Tower of Babble was an actual structure build by man in space and time after which the Good Lord confused the language of the whole world and scattered mankind over the face of the whole earth, ah-men.
Not so fast, Philistine...
The Old Testament was originally written almost entirely in old-world Hebrew, and the New Testament, Greek. Every legitimate biblical schollar will tell you that the mening got garbled when the 47 St. James translators rendered the original text into high-blown English, finishing the task in 1611. Ever since, literal interpretations of the English versions are considered wildly inaccurate on many issues owing to the translation problem just mentioned. Per "homosexuality" (a word that wasn't even coined till modern psychology came along), they didn't even get the terms correct.
Long story short - your appraisal of the bible is amateurish. If you want to take up a serious, objective study, there are plenty of places to start, but one of them is probably not an American fundamentalist church - we can easily see why.
JL
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anita514
Gym climber
Great White North
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Jun 30, 2015 - 03:30pm PT
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Jun 30, 2015 - 03:37pm PT
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They are disengenuous at best.
:-)
No, really, our human belief creation processes are honestly and sincerely crafted for our benefit. That our locally optimal belief (true or false) is not always created through logically rationally crafted exhaustively researched consistent and true beliefs ... well, ok, maybe it's better for you to believe that they're "disingenuous". :-)
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jun 30, 2015 - 03:48pm PT
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Hey elCap
glad to see ur back. Missed your hard core approach to climbing around here.
i for one hope you stick around.Remember these are just words on a screen, and they can only effect your behavior if you let'em. i started here because what i read got me pissed. But i learned/learning to move past it. It's easy to love climbing talk, not much there to refute. But politics and religion often raise the hackles. So most would rather to not pay attention. i've found that trying to write out our thoughts and opinions helps greatly to understand not only those that oppose mine, but also mine as well.
just my 2 cents:)
and ur right, i was never married. i don't expect you to, but if you went back over my post's you'de understand my veiw is a bit different than K's.
Thanks for your words of wisdom;)
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Jun 30, 2015 - 04:34pm PT
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Keep up the good fight DMT!
I think that our locally optimal belief is to believe that they're disingenuous. More optimal than believing it about ourselves I think.
Praise Jesus! I think we all do in our own human way. But we still have a long way to go before that's an optimal belief! :-)
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jun 30, 2015 - 04:52pm PT
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Praise Jesus! I think we all do in our own human way.
now you sound a bit......disingenuous?
funny how that little hypocrite bug seems to fly around and bite us all in the butt;)
butt i'm all in with ya on Praise Jesus!!
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Jun 30, 2015 - 05:21pm PT
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"Therefore a man shall leave his mother and father and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. Be fruitful and multiply." It's a clear reciepe for the meaning of what it takes to become Married.
Marriage has always been held to portray a meaning through acts. Specifically a the uniting of a man and a woman to combine their genes to begat their oneness in a child. That's it. Nothing more!
Blooie (or any other fundie here)- My apologies that my post was not clear enough for you to understand its nuance. I was pointing out that the marriage my patient has does not meet your definition of marriage due to the inability for the couple to procreate, much less have intercourse in the traditional manner. But their marriage is completely accepted by most. When compared to a gay couple -who also cannot procreate/have intercourse in the traditional manner- the only difference is a short strand of DNA on the 23rd pair. But that has no bearing on whether either couple is loving & devoted to one another, which I believe your "christian principles" hold in highest regard..
Please enlighten me as to why you or your god would not be offended by the "hetero" couple, but would be with the gay one.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Jun 30, 2015 - 05:31pm PT
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Sorry if I offended you blueblocr. Really my conscious intention is the opposite. That it bites us all on the butt is exactly my point :-)
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jun 30, 2015 - 05:34pm PT
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Genuinely wondering,
ImO, we all pick one of two choices. To either give God praise for ALL goodness, or not. If not, one reasons within his own mind that he alone is responsible for all the goodness bestowed in his life. Consequently giving praise to himself, deeming his ownself as god. On the other hand, anyone praising jesus, allah, buddha, etc. are all calling to the same One God.
One either feels in control of what science calls, cause-n-effect and random chance. Or one humbly gives thanks for creation.
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Jun 30, 2015 - 06:01pm PT
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Blue, don't you have a child out of wedlock? Isn't this a Sin? You speak of Marriage as a Godly commitment but you couldn't Manup and not have your child born into Sin? There's a word for what you're showing on this thread, it begins with an H. . . .
Edit, we ALL do Blue. . .
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jun 30, 2015 - 06:04pm PT
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i got wherse sins than that Brutha Bull;)
edit; but i pray not today or tomorrow though
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jun 30, 2015 - 06:04pm PT
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In this case, not only did the court assert itself as lawmakers, two of the justices had, in the past, presided over a number of gay weddings. In our court system, those two should have recused themselves from this proceeding.
But the other seven had only ever presided over hetero weddings, so how could they not recuse themselves as well?
Sorry if that sounds facetious, but really, if the justices that presided over the gay weddings did so in a jurisdiction where gay weddings were legal, how does that make it wrong for them to sit on the bench in this case? They have not violated any laws.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jun 30, 2015 - 06:05pm PT
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Is it okay that the Justices had presided over hetero weddings in the past?
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Jun 30, 2015 - 06:08pm PT
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A lion does not lose sleep over the opinions of sheep. Men are sinners, and I am amongst the greatest of these. Quotes from a self described humble Supertopo Christian
You know DMT, humbly.
Human belief creation processes. We all have them ... We're really good at them!
Heck when we've outsourced all of our information processing/belief creation to the flawlessly logical computers then we'll be freed to teach our dogs calculus, or whatever it is that we omnipotent humans and our dogs are capable of.
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