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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Jan 11, 2015 - 04:20pm PT
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I doubt a young Muslim kid from the ghettos of Paris who started out wanting to be a rapper, and couldn't get a job and then left for Yemen was motivated by religion to go there. I think he had many just grievances against French society, he saw no future for himself there, he wanted adventure, and he sought it out. Whether or not he got converted in the process is an interesting question, but he didn't start out as a devout Muslim or even a militant one. In my view, asking how he got that way, is similar to asking how a Black southern Baptist became a Black Muslim. It isn't about religion so much as social and economic deprivation.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 11, 2015 - 04:30pm PT
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Fruitcake, ... all hater disguised as academic bullsh!t with no real world experience whatsoever .....
Just an ignorant academic bubble boy.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jan 11, 2015 - 05:02pm PT
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Like the boy in the bubble and the baby with the baboon heart?
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Chugach
Trad climber
Vermont
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2015 - 05:09pm PT
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Ken M said...
Nearly 400 posts, and no defense of his position by the OP.
Oh sorry, yes a few people quoted Muslims speaking out on it. More than I expected and I am very happy to see it, though it was weak and I didn't expect much. The intelligent, rational Muslims are losing their formerly beautiful religion because they are weak, disorganized and cowardly. The fanatics are hijacking the religion and redefining it because they have vision, conviction and organization.
What we're seeing is simply a schism within that religion, not a war against the west, but a war amongst themselves - and the voices of love, tradition and moderation are losing. It's a sad loss for all of us.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 11, 2015 - 05:14pm PT
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Wow at least one guy (Chugach) has a fuking brain.
I was beginning to wonder if the whole world has just been turning into stupid media zombies like most of the tools on this stupid forum.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Jan 11, 2015 - 05:35pm PT
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Welfare doesn't buy respect from either the donor or the recipient and the longer it lasts, the more the resentment grows on both sides.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jan 11, 2015 - 05:46pm PT
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And how do you think that the one out of six unemployed Americans between the ages of 24 and 52 are subsisting?
Crack out that EBT card man.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Jan 11, 2015 - 05:55pm PT
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There's a difference between temporary help and a way of life with no hope of change.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jan 11, 2015 - 06:04pm PT
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What makes you think that it's temporary?
The US labor utilization rate has been dropping like a stone and almost all of the drop is in the 24-52 age group.
The labor utilization rate for those over 52 is actually increasing.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Jan 11, 2015 - 08:14pm PT
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bubbles-
They may actually prefer to have a job and a life with dignity. The greater mystery is why America's long term unemployed have been so docile for so long.You better hope the rednecks don't get radicalized or the Bundy standoff will look like kindergarten.
And yes, I believe our leaders let the world down.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Jan 11, 2015 - 08:52pm PT
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You're comparing the potential impulses of the long term unemployed in the United States to radical Muslim terrorists..... Quite a leap.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Jan 11, 2015 - 10:14pm PT
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I'm sure that's one of the reasons certain groups try to defund education in the US. as well.
As for the radicalization of the unemployed, they came close in the 1930's. Since then the revolts have been sporadic and localized. The Ku Klux Klan and White Arayan Nation, the Weatherman, the Black Panthers, the right wing militia on the political spectrum, and David Koresh, Heaven's Gate and Jim Jones in the religious fanatics category.
Still,the French could learn a lot from us about how to include a disenfrancised minority. We didn't buy peace after the riots of the 1960's by social welfare programs alone, but by providing real means for many to raise their status.We still have a huge ethnically based underclass but members of that class have also made it to Congress, the Supreme Court and the Presidency, and are Generals, and CEO's. That's unthinkable for a young Muslim growing up in a French ghetto.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jan 11, 2015 - 10:37pm PT
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We already have radicals. They're just not organized. Let education stagnate
Where are you from? Here in Cali we have an organized head for the radicals, his name is Jerry Brown. He's not letting education stagnate though, he's defunding it!
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Jan 11, 2015 - 10:43pm PT
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I hear bunch of hollering about the USA failing to properly attend the march today in Paris. I'm short on time to research the matter; but, were there any other countries on the west shore of the Atlantic Ocean that also failed to properly attend? Which presidents from any American countries attended?
What would they would say if Obama was right up there in the front line?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Jan 11, 2015 - 10:45pm PT
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Sorry blue, but I've met the real thing. I was in Berkeley and Oakland during the 1960's. I attended a junior college where the Black Panthers got their start and attended a lot of their rallies while it was still safe for white people to do so.
It was Ronald Reagan who first cut funding to higher education in California. Of course his cause was helped by liberal white dummies throwing rocks at cars passing on the freeway while holding up signs saying "Thanks for your taxpayer dollars". I saw that too, with my own eyes.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Jan 11, 2015 - 10:47pm PT
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TMJesse, I'm still trying to research it but it may have been an invitation only event and we weren't invited since Europeans in general never supported our invasion of Iraq which set off a lot of these problems.Remember the Freedom fries episode?
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Jan 11, 2015 - 10:52pm PT
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Jan, that would make sense and would explain it. But, USA shouldn't be criticized or the matter shouldn't be domestically politicized over it, if that was the case. Did Mexico, Canada, or Brazil attend? Who did they send?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Jan 11, 2015 - 11:20pm PT
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Agreed. I do find it odd that the American newspapers by and large have been strangely silent about it. I'm sure some enterprising journalists will get to the bottom of it however.Who knows, they may even make satiracal cartoons about it.
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Degaine
climber
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Jan 12, 2015 - 12:04am PT
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Chugach wrote:
Ken M said...
Nearly 400 posts, and no defense of his position by the OP.
Oh sorry, yes a few people quoted Muslims speaking out on it. More than I expected and I am very happy to see it, though it was weak and I didn't expect much. The intelligent, rational Muslims are losing their formerly beautiful religion because they are weak, disorganized and cowardly. The fanatics are hijacking the religion and redefining it because they have vision, conviction and organization.
What we're seeing is simply a schism within that religion, not a war against the west, but a war amongst themselves - and the voices of love, tradition and moderation are losing. It's a sad loss for all of us.
More than just a few Muslims condemned the act - the major Muslim leaders in France as well as most local Muslim communities in France condemned the act right away. Muslims from all walks of life participated in the 3.5 million person rally across France on Sunday.
In countries such as Iran, Turkey, Algeria, Tunisia, and Lebanon, leaders condemned the act and locals gathered at French embassies to show their condemnation of what happened at Charlie Hebdo.
You consider this weak? It's utterly f*#king unprecedented.
Why not just admit that you were completely and utterly wrong on this one and be done with it?
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