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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Mar 20, 2015 - 03:49am PT
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You are not the only ones to be quiet about what you have done at Woodson!
KB took me and others under his wing so to speak in '81. There are a lot of people who have had hollywierd jobs that gave them time to climb, as well as out of work climbers who have spent time, lots of time climbing there too.
The number of solos done free, onsight* would surprise some of you, but clearly now you know that!
*(Not ground up, we would clean each other routes, striving for unattainable purity 'cause in our excitement we would try out the holds/ moves and tell each other. No one was going to be famous, no sponsership or gyms it was about fun in the sun and getting hard as nails.it was a different world)
Cheers and carry a hammer n' chisel if you must remove bolts, or you could get over it and let the world of 'new climbers' spin out of control... Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Oh wow now that I have spent some time reading, it is clear that the 'New' climbers know and do not care. They give a wink and a nod to each other while blowing compliments, Smoke up the butts of old aged climbers who's achievements, by having been kept on the 'down lo',
are now in question. I think that Sanstone should publish !! And no one has more cred, well maybe some but they have yet to yell stop destroying the rock!T
The punks are all grown up armed with $$ and drills n' boltz .so the war is on but lost already, If even one hand sized flake has been unnecessarily pried from the miraculous flexible matrix that has helped teach climbers to learn how hard to pull for ever almost.
If you can climb past a wiggler, a R rated climb, then go a head but to strip off the fabulous teaching, moments leaving a stupid jug haul that teaches nothing that sirs or Curs, is a criminal act , get a sak and climb past loose rock with care.
Sorry I won't be out there to photograph you I have the Video of Ivan green, 'sculpting' a boulder to create a very hard(v10?) problem. Have you all seen it? I will find it and post it here.
He feels it is the 'new' extension of the non-climbing sport that is modern bouldering. NOT
No I do not agree but I can barely climb V3 so am not a heard/listened to, voice in the wilderness.
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 20, 2015 - 09:29am PT
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The bar HAS been lowered!! That "boulderer" I'm talking about is not just one person, it's potentially many people. People that I hear talking about Woodson in the gyms. I'm a gym rat during the week, that's how I know. I've heard gym employees and patrons (sometimes also very strong climbers) say that "there's only one good problem at Woodson". They're talking about The Fake Eppulator, which they mistakenly refer to as "The Cave Problem", and call V6/V7 (.12+/.13). Some folks haven't ever been climbing at Woodson, despite living in San Diego and "being a climber", and if they do go, it will be all about The Fake Eppulator. I threw in Nightmare on Elm Street because some of these same folks will venture up the hill for that one after they've sent the Fake Eppulator, but that's probably relatively rare.
So this is a type of person that we could focus on as far as educating about ethics, history, style, etc. I really think that we are all cut from the same cloth here on this site, and that we are more similar than we are different. My imaginary example of the "contemporary boulderer" is very real, and just like the potato chip rock hordes, they both need a little help as to not f*ck the place up. Like, if you see a shirtless bro with a beanie, and he asks you where "The Cave Problem" is (this exact thing happened to Johannsolo and I one Sunday), show them you're "hip" by taking them to Fake Eppulator, but on your way try to tell them a Royal Robbins story or something cool. Get 'em psyched on the history. And suggest they wear a shirt, that manzanita is f#cked up.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Mar 20, 2015 - 09:33am PT
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No. Manzanita is good stuff.
Sort of.
Edit(s): It would be a shame to cheat someone out of the chance to learn some new "words" while they figured out how to deal with it. There are some things people just need to figure out by themselves, valuable life lessons and all that.
Good one Kevin, ha.
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 20, 2015 - 11:37pm PT
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Quo
Mar 19, 2015 - 07:52am PT
Rush is also one of my favorite bands and I have seen them twice in concert.
I am sorry that you feel I "damaged" the rock but I would disagree and still feel it is a better climb now and repeatable.te Here
Hopefully this will be my last post on this subject. I go back into obscurity on ST, and resume my otherwise normal life. The issue has been 99% squashed on paper. Here is the important, final 1%. The most important 1%.
Yohan went to an area that has been climbed for decades. I know for a fact he has no significant time spent on the rock in that area. He made a decision to place a top rope bolt above a section of loose flakes that at best, would have been a "Squeeze Play", considering the clean routes that are with arms reach on each side of what he pried off. Routes that I have been climbing seasonally for about 12 years.
I climbed these lines today. They are still great climbs. Yohan still feels he created a "better climb". The truth is that he never climbed the line that he did the damage on. I was there within days of the damage. There was still dirt caked under the flakes he pried off, and not one chalk mark on the whole wall (I have photos if anyone disputes that too).
Coincidentally, the crack that "Friend" was making movies on that day, was loading with chalk.As were a couple boulder problems in the immediate area. All these climbs mentioned are within 100 yards. Point: If Yohan had climbed any of this stuff seriously, it would have showed.
Yohan- What you still fail to understand, is that there is NO route below the bolt you placed. Before or after you pried the flakes. The Arete climb is 3'to the left and it is a great climb. "Fire Balloon" is 3' to the right, and ends at the high point of the rock. "Middle of Air" goes straight up the highest point of the rock. Down climb to the climbers right.
How fitting that some you that have been following this thread will be cleaning up up Mt. Woodson this weekend. Slandering the people that ruin climbing areas. I invite you all to think about the value of preserving the precious resource that exists in and around the area.
Given a virgin Woodson, would you preserve it or just ruin it?
And remember, The Hills Have Eyes.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Mar 21, 2015 - 08:01am PT
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This is from an Equal and you should know better uses his handssolo to jerk off flakes that should have been left in place Curb your ego it won't grow your member and it will get you membership revoked
Come for fun not to claim firsts that were sent when you were still in short pants! (Diapers, when I get pissed the Brit comes out)
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Mar 21, 2015 - 08:38am PT
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Making mountains out of molehills...
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Mar 21, 2015 - 09:17am PT
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TURE GDavis
If they are the mole hills that you have climbed on for decades, built trails, cared about as you would a family member then IMO it matters.
When someone who knows better and cares to ruin (and call it making it better !?)a finite resource that is about to be under siege from the next set of gym trained '"klimbers'"
(tic mark safest at the cost of the rock mentality).
Steps to force the community to look and see, are the best ways to address the situation.
I said that the climb and let climb approach is best and it seems that Sanstone gets this a well.
The damage is done more will happen but if we old school believers can stand against the hoard a bit longer the growth curve will catch up and the value of the unspoiled will be appreciated by more and the rock and preservation of the rock will be more
Not less important .
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 21, 2015 - 09:21am PT
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Thanks for the support Gnome. Glad to see someone still get's it.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Mar 21, 2015 - 08:24pm PT
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Relax, this isnt about climbing ability, its about preserving a finite resource that we all have to share. Having said that, heres my take on this particular incident.
If this were about one climb i would say that its blown way out of proportion, but its not about the climb, its about the rock, and its a sticky gray area because its all about judgement.
Anyone who really explores and finds new stuff, especially in san diego county, knows that most new lines have loose flakes, grit, lichen etc. that has to be removed. How judicious one is about cleaning a line is the crux of the biscuit. Do you climb it and let nature determine which flakes bear weight and which dont? Do you only take off that which a soft bristle brush will remove? A wire brush? The back of the brush? Use a screwdriver? A crowbar? It comes down to intent. I dont agree with removing a bunch of flakes just so you can solo or boulder a new route. When ego supersedes reason and humility then problems are inevitable. We should all have a light hand and remove only what is absolutely necessary. Its a judgement call, and we all rely on each other to have good judgement.
I went up and looked at the route and flakes in person, and have two observations. One is that the flakes didnt need to be removed. It left ugly dirt scars right between two existing lines, and the removal didnt create a very difficult or aesthetic climb. If the motive was to make it safe for soloing then why place a bolt? Curious choice.
On the flip side, this rock is covered in loose flakes, and in my book loose rock is poor quality rock. It should be expected that plenty more flakes will come off that rock as it gets climbed more. The lines look fun, but the rock is loose and flakey and its gonna break one way or another. It didnt take a crowbar, just a yank, so were not talking about wild eyed prying and chiseling.
Back to my main point. It is important that removing flakes not become general practice, because there are too many people who dont know a good flake from a bad one. Many loose flakes dont need to be removed and are the integral part of a route that might be 30 years old. Not all loose flakes break. The concern is trying to keep the lid on pandoras box, because once bad practices become the norm they are almost impossible to stop, and when the rock suffers, all clinbers suffer.
Vigilance against destructive practices requires calling each other out from time to time, but that can be done without accusations and animosity. If ones intentions are good they shouldnt mind explaining their actions without getting all defensive. But the inquisitor also should have a good attitude and ask without a bunch of bluster or intimidation. Give your bro the benefit of doubt and take it from there.
We are climbers. Lets act with the next guy in mind and be responsible. "Famous climber" is kind of an oxymoron. Whater fame one achieves in climbing is fleeting and recognized by a very tiny segment of the population. Its not worth damaging the environment for. Does that route need to be climbed so bad that its worth altering the rock to make it go? Good intentions, good attitude, respect and responsibility will go a long way toward solving the conflicts that will always be part of climbing.
We are all climbers therefore we are brothers and sisters. Peace
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Mar 21, 2015 - 08:43pm PT
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[quote]I prefer Womanzanita.
Edit: there actually is such a plant. Ask Leavitt. It goes down easy.[quote]
hahahahahahahaha!
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Sanstone
climber
San Diego
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Mar 21, 2015 - 09:11pm PT
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r
RG- It's actually just the opposite. There are so many holds, it's not even challenging.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Mar 21, 2015 - 10:38pm PT
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The issues are legitimate, the posturing and ego's involved are not. But, we are San Diego, home of the turf wars.
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Mar 21, 2015 - 11:32pm PT
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There are turf wars everywhere new routes are being developed, san diego has no special claim to that. What we could do without are judgements based on second hand information.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Mar 27, 2015 - 10:02am PT
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Sandstoner's a whimp. He only uses a screwdriver to pry off loose flakes, or is that oldschool? My gym teaches proper loose flake identification and removal techniques so I know what I'm doing.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Mar 27, 2015 - 10:05am PT
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http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1010167/notes-on-San-Diego-rock-climbing
!!/!3/09, Ray OLson.
Mt. Woodson is the most well known and historic climbing
area in San Diego county. It has great access, sees lots of traffic
and enjoys the greatest concensus on difficulty.
In the 70's and into the 80's almost no one seemed to believe
we had anything harder than than 5.11. So many climbs at
Woodson remained undervalued for some time. But that began
to change and in my mind it changed fast when Jonny Woodward
came down and repeated one of the areas benchmark classics,
John Bachar's Driving South, giving it a grade of solid 5.12a.
Now, keep in mind, we had no internet, but word of the "new
grade" spread fast - it was news. Here was someone who knew
what they were talking about telling us that yeah, we had climbs
harder than 5.11!
That climb, as many of you know, was established as a ropeless
highball. Bachar's account of the "hideous bailouts" and "you
don't want to fall from up there" told to us right here on
Supertopo. So, yeah, its a good TR, lots of fun and maybe the
accomplishment of a personal goal - very cool. But, from one
standpoint, as a TR, you have not repeated it the way it done
on the FA. Maybe you get "points" for fewest TR rehearsals?
Mine was two, spread out over two years before a ropeless
send in 1984.
BTW, on a low hill west of Mother Grundy, I found another
even steeper and more buldging "Driving South". No highball
madness here, and since the jams are more positive, no harder
either, only .12a, plus the rock is a touch grainy, too. Just another
day out in the beautiful hills of my beloved San Diego backcounrty.
Kinda doubt its seen a second, but you never know. :-)
All the time I was using crow-bars and car jacks to back off 400lbs blocks to make safe my news est first accent, Trundle Bunny 5.4= a little gritty ,= Chains at the Belay, 75 feet.Stop at ledge
nohandsolo doesn't go to the top.
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Friend
climber
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Mar 27, 2015 - 11:18am PT
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I'm glad to see the brouhaha regarding “the Martian Chronicles” has died down a bit. I avoided comment both because I felt I was being baited and because I know nothing about the climb. From the sound of it, it’s not the kind of thing that would grab my attention, even if I walked right underneath it, which maybe I did. Did I? I honestly have no idea.
Sanstone: I think your stream of cheap shots subtly and not-so-subtly accusing me of f*#king up your secret area was petty and vindictive, not to mention inaccurate. But I’m not trying to be sarcastic when I say NO WORRIES, BRO. That’s life on the internet. I’m fine with that.
I went up there for a morning hike a few months ago to warm up for a project on the main hill. FWIW, I was solo, no pad, no rope, no bolts, no beanie, no ipod. Although I’m friends with many of the readers/contributors to this thread, and although several of them wandered up there this spring, I don’t think there was any communication or organized conspiracy to do so. For my part, I honestly hoped that posting a couple of very discrete videos (no directions, no giveaway landmarks, and super generic – even misleading – titles like “Woodson finger crack”) might open a line of communication with locals, if they chose. Maybe they’d be stoked on my clips, maybe they’d politely ask me to remove them or mark them Private. That was my hope and the spirit of my posts. I could see someone had put some work into maintaining a trail. I also saw some pretty obvious glue reinforcement right next to said trail. I wasn’t expecting that, wasn’t looking for it, and certainly didn’t take any pictures to stir sh#t up on the internet. Did my eyes deceive me? I try hard to avoid confrontation unless someone is standing right in front of me, so if I’m wrong please correct me and I will apologize and edit this post. But since you’ve come out of hiding and know the area better than anyone – and since you chose this forum rather than PM’ing me – please fill us in on this. I just can’t reconcile how upset you are about Johan’s well-intentioned actions, but not about someone going up there and gluing. Was it you? What’s the story there?
I find it ironic that in the same breath that you rail against others for their unchecked egos and lack of soul, you tell us that your name for the Laverne & Shirley area is “Cerro Terre.” I’ve gotta be missing something here. It sounds like you’ve taken the liberty of naming the place after yourself? How does that fit with all the claims of egotism?
Re. videos, of course I am conflicted about the ego angle. I’m not going to defend myself other than to say, the positive response from friends new and old has been overwhelming and inspiring. Thanks people. Sanstone, whether the clips I made at “your” area remain visible to the public or not does not matter to me in the slightest. If you’d like me to make them private or if you have named them and want me to use your names, by all means let me know and I’m more than happy to go with that. Makes no difference to me.
Cheers
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plasticmullet
climber
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Mar 27, 2015 - 11:30am PT
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Friend, I really enjoy your videos and your vibe. Makes me wish I still bouldered and in doing so had you as a frequent partner. Send!
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Mar 27, 2015 - 01:10pm PT
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Gno-ideawhatthefu4ckhe'stalkingabout is a complete f'ing ahole.
Do you even climb you piece of sh$t?
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Mar 27, 2015 - 01:23pm PT
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Here is the actual post (Blitzo memorial thread) where Gno-ideawhathe'ssayin grabbed the photo from which he back edited comments on also. You fwad.
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Mar 27, 2015 - 01:26pm PT
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Come on up to Suicide Gno-thing POS. Or if you like Tahquitz, you can help me work on freeing the Happy Hooker.
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