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feynman
Trad climber
chossberta
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The drunk scrambler analogy was in reply to the link to the drunk idiot who shot himself while teaching his girlfriend how to use a gun.
The trundling analogy applies to the case of a rare crazy sociopath who commits a mass killing: whether by gun in a crowd or trundling boulders on a school group, the results are similar. The risks of both are very small, but non-zero.
Trundling is a very effective way to kill people. I suspect if more movies and video games highlighted it, we could increase its frequency back to historic numbers and then do something to limit the ability of people to use the tools associated with its performance.
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speelyei
Trad climber
Mohave County Arizona
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I have always been surprised that there is no requirement to demonstrate minimal knowledge and competence to buy and own firearms.
I don't think it would really change anything, regarding violent criminal actors, suicidal people, etc.
I'm just surprised that it doesn't work that way.
The school shooting phenomenon is a very strange and terrible thing. I wonder if casualties would be higher if psychotic criminals chose some other mechanism? I think in many cases they would be. I am not going to suggest alternatives. I am not suggesting we be "thankful" these monsters choose guns. But to trip over a clue, to high-center on a detail "if only there were no guns"... then what? It suggests that the gun causes the act.
I wonder if someone with better bio-medical expertise could draw a parallel between a malfunctioning cell in an organism, and a malfunctioning individual in a macro-organism? These freaks, whatever their cocktail of triggers, dysfunctions, and chemistry is... they are malignant cancers, waiting to kill?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Only to you does it seem that the argument is "the gun is the Cause"
Most sane folks realize guns are not the cause just the expedient facilitator and that virtually universal access to guns is a huge problem.
Yes I am sure the carnage and death toll would have been much worse if he had chosen something other than guns. Spatulas perhaps or perchance stale bagels.
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speelyei
Trad climber
Mohave County Arizona
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Philo, re-read my post. I think you'll find we're in more agreement than you think.
Do not mistake me for some blind second amendment flag waver.
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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Well, people are creative. They're using knives in China now. 20 something dead, 160 something injured. Seems pretty effective.
What if.. what iff.. WHAWT IFF...
what if they had used explosives?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Maybe they are using knives because the much more effective killing weapons known as guns are much harder to access in China. What would the death toll have been if they had all been armed like the Aurora Co theater shooter? Less?
Yours is a straw man argument.
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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You keep wanting to play the what if game.
Had they used automatic weapons, the death toll would have been higher. Happy?
What if we model our society on China?
What if they had used chemical weapons?
What if they had used explosives?
What if they had each driven a truck through a crowd?
What if they ...
I'm tired of that. They used knives. They killed at leas 28 and injured more than 160. You haven't answered the question... how do you prevent that?
Don't you even try to say something stupid like "not by giving them guns."
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg6jxcEA8sQ
Drunken blind man shoots and kills friend in argument. Gets off on "Stand your ground" law and gets his guns back.
JRig, do you know why you can't go to Ace Hardware or Home Depot and buy Dynamite?
Do you know why it is so regulated?
Look it up, the worst school killing tragedy was a disgruntled janitor who used the then readilly available TNT to blow up a school full of children.
"Regulation" came swiftly in that case.
Is your world worse or less free because everybody can't go buy dynamite?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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the death toll have been if they had all been armed like the Aurora Co theater shooter?
The Aurora shooter passed by FIVE theaters until he found one that was a
"gun free zone"
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Oh BULLSH#T TeaGeeTYea.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nope,
Look it up
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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Here Philo:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/09/10/did-colorado-shooter-single-out-cinemark-theater/
clicky for you.
Now how, exactly, did a guys with knives kill and wound more than Holmes?
I don't know whether my life is better or worse since I can't just go down to the hardware store and buy dynamite. But I can buy or manufacture my own binary explosive. Tannerite. Look it up. I also would support universal background checks, but you just keep seeing "GUN NUT!" and running with it.
Oh yeah, when you feel like you have the time, go ahead an answer that question I've asked you three times now. I answered yours. How come you don't want to play?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Yes of course FoX News the unadulterated purvetor of all things truth.
The truth is Aurora's ordinance prohibits anyone from carrying a firearm onto private property if there is "posted notification that the carrying of firearms is prohibited." Verbal notice of a no-guns policy is also sufficient.
Cinemark does have a strict no gun policy but so what. this is an example of how Faux Noise twists and spins the story to fit their conclusion.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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I will go back and look for your question. in the mean time why don't some of you explain what weapons your interpretation of the 2nd Amendment does not allow you to have.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Other than specifics I did answer your question- not all gun owners are gun nuts.
But too many nuts own too many guns.
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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I doubt the 2nd allows me to own things like canons. I doubt it addresses things like explosives. Or nukes. Or RPGs. Or landmines.
I read it to mean that the right of people to own firearms shall not be restricted. This in order to support the militia, but not requiring a militia to uphold that right. But then, I'm not a constitutional lawyer, so you can lump that in with how people view my individual experiences... worthless.
I look to the decisions of the Supreme Court to guide what is legal and what is not. When something falls under the category of a gray area, it's up to them to decide where the line is drawn... what's legal, what's not, and how the amendments are interpreted. In the case of the 2nd, they've establish a not-quite-total individual right to firearm ownership. That means "reasonable restrictions", and we'll probably be battling that out for a long time to come. Ultimately, the courts will decide what restrictions are reasonable.
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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Well, that wasn't the question.... I asked how to prevent people with knives from committing atrocities?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Oh that one. Easy shoot them 50 or 60 times.
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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\Come on dude, you know it's more complex than that and your answer is a smart-ass reply to a question dealing more with what's wrong in a society that people feel the need to go to those kinds of extremes.
Guys with knives. More destructive than the colorado theatre shooting.
You want to promote rational discussion, eh? Then try it.
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