Yep...ANOTHER mass shooting.

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John M

climber

Dec 15, 2012 - 01:46am PT

Mental healthcare is FREE, Philo. ( look around ) You just gotta ask for it.

How much easier could it get?

Very very very short term help is available. Usually in groups. There are lots of people whom groups would not help.

Also, much of the "free" help are people who are new, or don't have particularly high levels of training.

It would be like going to the school nurse for brain surgery.

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Dec 15, 2012 - 02:20am PT

no exchange of ideas needed...

That about sums it up.

Patrick Sawyer

climber

Originally California now Ireland

Dec 15, 2012 - 06:03am PT

KSolem, I used to like you (your posts), but...

... now I feel sorry for you.

In my eyes, you just do not get it. Perhaps I am wrong.

My heart goes out to those victims and their families. By your posts KSolem, you do not have the same feelings. Perhaps I am wrong, and if I am, I apologize. But as I can see (read) you come across as a bit callous on this tragedy.

Perhaps I am wrong.

I understand some of the right-twits on this forum, those who love guns and say "Guns kill, people don't". Try telling that to a parent who just lost a child to a nutter.

But KSolem, in the past you always seemed level-headed.

Earlier, in a post on this thread, I said that I do not want to pontificate. I guess I just have.

nick d

Trad climber

Dec 15, 2012 - 06:24am PT

Mental healthcare is FREE, Philo. ( look around ) You just gotta ask for it.

Well Chaz, here in Albuquerque a mentally ill man went to the hospital with a secure treatment facility (Anna Kaseman) literally begging for help. He was acting out, pissing on the walls, etc...

They were busy and the administrator sent him packing. The next day he shot and killed five people at various locations around town, finishing up with two uniformed officers.

I don't think their survivors would find your comment informed or humorous.

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber

Dec 15, 2012 - 08:13am PT

Chaz said

Mental healthcare is FREE, Philo. ( look around ) You just gotta ask for it.

Maybe you should ask for some then snce you are clearly delusional. The underfunded and undersupported mental health system in this country was virtually GUTTED during state budget cuts by various tea party driven "thou shalt not raise taxes" sate legislatures. In Prescott, Arizona, the Yavapai Guidance Clinic, a major source of care for those in need in that area, went from something like a dozen therapists to 2 in one year because of state budget cuts. Elsewhere in the country, mental health care consists of putting people in prison or into a state run mental health facility (basically a prison) where people struggle to provide any real care to the patients.

Feel free to depart from your "America is a socialist paradise" dreamscape and join us in the real world anytime.

philo

Trad climber

Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Dec 15, 2012 - 08:24am PT

From the NY Times today.

The gunman was chillingly accurate. A spokesman for the State Police said he left only one wounded survivor at the school. All the others hit by the barrage of bullets from the guns Mr. Lanza carried — the rifle was similar to a weapon used widely by troops in Afghanistan and Iraq — died, suggesting that they were shot at point-blank range. One law enforcement official said the shootings occurred in two classrooms in a section of the single-story Sandy Hook Elementary School.

So who will be the first fool to regurgitate the NRA approved BS claim that if he didn't have guns he would have still done it but with a knife or a lead pipe or a tennis racket?

Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber

Old and Broken Down in Appalachia

Dec 15, 2012 - 08:30am PT

Mental healthcare is FREE, Philo. ( look around ) You just gotta ask for it.

Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! Agree, this is a delusional statement.

I work in the healthcare and mental healthcare field. In my state there is a 6-month waiting list for "free" mental healthcare.

Before I went into medicine I was told by a crusty old doctor that 99% of what you see in the emergency room is related to mental health problems. I laughed at his ridiculous statement.

But now 2 decades later I see that he was right. Almost everything that we treat in the ER is in some way or another caused by, or related to, mental health problems.

Almost everything that we see in the ER is caused by lifestyle choices - dysfunctional choices related to untreated mental health issues.

Ex:
childhood sexual abuse > depression > alcohol abuse > automobile crash > trauma

anxiety > over-eating > obesity > diabetes

The sooner that our society recognizes that mental health problems are at the root of our society's problems, the sooner we can move forward to deal effectively with the issues.

philo

Trad climber

Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Dec 15, 2012 - 08:38am PT

I can see the scenario...
Desperate man on the breaking edge of a violent rampage decides to seek help at local mental health facility and is told to come in for an evaluation in six months. Six months later the survivors of his rampage depressed to the breaking point of suicide seek help at the local mental health facility and are told...

But hey it's FREE right?

philo

Trad climber

Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Dec 15, 2012 - 08:45am PT

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/14/1339761/hours-after-kindergarten-shooting-michigan-gop-calls-for-allowing-guns-in-schools/?mobile=nc

Hours After Connecticut Kindergarten Shooting, Michigan GOP Calls For Allowing Guns In Schools
By Zack Beauchamp on Dec 14, 2012 at 4:36 pm

Hours after the terrible shooting in a Newtown, Connecticut elementary school, the Michigan House Republicans issued demanded that Governor Rick Snyder (R) sign a bill that would make it easier for people to receive a gun permit and open up “gun free zones,” including schools. A statement attributed to Press Secretary Ari B. Adler shrugged off any link between guns in schools and school shootings:

Now that IS crazy!

LilaBiene

Trad climber

Dec 15, 2012 - 10:39am PT

QINTL, thanks for sharing the link to the school principal's Twitter account. Her last tweet was of an article out of the Harvard Business Review..."Nine Ways Successful People Defeat Stress". The first is to have "self-compassion"; the second is to remember the "big picture". I'll have to read the rest of the article another time -- this is all just too sad.

Lynne, I really like your idea of sending a letter to the school. Together today the muppet will draw a picture and I will write a letter, and we'll send these off to the school. They will just be drops in a pond...but you need a lot of drops of water to make a pond.

Just a couple of general thoughts...everyone deals with the shock of an event like this differently, so judging how one person or the other responds emotionally...well, I'll just put this thought out there for consideration. Effective advocacy requires understanding where the person you are trying to persuade is coming from and what he values, and incorporating these considerations into your pitch; generally speaking, yelling, name-calling, door-slamming, lack of respect for differences of opinion, bullying and refusing to really listen and understand are all ways of ensuring that you, as an advocate, will not be heard.

And, yes, I do believe that if the gunman hadn't been able to access guns, he still would have found a way to exert his pathological aggression, but that's just my humble opinion. I'm respectfully open to hearing what anyone else has to say about my own thoughts and opinions.

Patrick Sawyer

climber

Originally California now Ireland

Dec 15, 2012 - 10:54am PT

^^^^^ (Dec 15 2012, 6:44am PT)

Silver I don't get your rant. What are you trying to say?

philo

Trad climber

Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Dec 15, 2012 - 11:01am PT

Silver I am sorry that you perceive me as ranting. I do not feel that I am. I believe I have made good valid and strong points without drama or histrionics. Expressing condolences and hugging our kids is great and should be a normal part of our humanity. But it wont get dangerous weapons out of the hands of dangerous people. To say that in his derangement he would have perpetrated this aggression any other way is a simplistic knee jerk reaction. If he had gone into that school with a baseball bat how many more children would be celebrating Christmas with their Parents this year?
There is a thread for mourning I encourage all to post there if so moved. But this thread has been from the OP about ANOTHER mass shooting. Not about how sorry we feel. Something must be done. Is it unreasonable to say that? This should be a dialogue about what can and should be done. It is sad to me that every time these horrid episodes occur gun advocates circle the wagon and reload rather than engage in reasoned and adult dialogue. If that is ranting in your mind I can't help that.

philo

Trad climber

Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Dec 15, 2012 - 11:06am PT

That being there is a BIG difference between "wounded" and "DEAD".

Skeptimistic

Mountain climber

La Mancha

Dec 15, 2012 - 11:08am PT

I think sadly that the genie is out of the bottle when it comes to controlling guns. Too many rabid "patriots" would pull a Charleton Heston ("over my dead body!") and too many criminals armed to the teeth.

That said, I think owning a gun should be at least as difficult as getting a commercial rating for a pilot.

Guns, unlike bombs, don't take a lot of planning to use. Get pissed off, grab a gun, squeeze the trigger. So IF guns had been difficult to obtain/access for this kid, it's likely he would've been hard pressed to inflict the tragic horror that transpired yesterday and we'd have 26-odd people still alive and able to celebrate the holidays with their families.

People who don't live in the wild and think they need guns are a complete mystery to me.

philo

Trad climber

Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Dec 15, 2012 - 11:10am PT

Guns are a tool that have one purpose.

I have lots of tools. I can even use them for purposes they were not intended for.
I can probably trim my beard with my wire cutters or pop beer tops with my linesman.
But they were made for a purpose. Guns are designed to kill. You won't likely use your hand gun as a hammer or your rifle as a pry bar would you. Oh sure if I was mad enough I could kill someone with my hammer. But

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Dec 15, 2012 - 11:11am PT

I didn't resort to vile name calling or insults, Dave.
Your credibility gap is showing there.

I'm trying to point out that the real problem is behavior rather than the availability of a tool that is basically the combination of a power drill and a TV remote control.

This was a horrible tragic event. I have no intention of minimizing that.

But one thing that I find heartening (and I currently have the History Channel playing a show called Engineering Evil, about the Holocaust) is that 70 years ago there was so much death and destruction that this event would not have even merited much attention, but today the lives of 20 children is so dear that a billion people are paying attention.

The world might actually be a better place if we are becoming more compassionate.

philo

Trad climber

Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Dec 15, 2012 - 11:16am PT

Yeah next time I see a bear in my kids school I will be sure to brandish my power drill and remote control.

So what do some of you suggest? Rounding up- all guns in this country?

See right there is part, a big part of the problem. Reasonable people start to discuss reasonable regulations and the die hards burp out the "round up all the guns" non sense.
No is remotely suggesting rounding up all the guns or having the UN troops do it or what ever am radio BS is spewed. We are talking about certain classes of weaponry and ammunition and magazines that have no valid purpose in the hands of your average citizen. Make them illegal then perps can be arrested for that and not murderous rampages.

Can any of you gun enthusiasts say unequivocally that your life and personal liberties would be egregiously harmed by not being able to legally own a machine gun? Or an UZI or a MAC10?