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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Aug 29, 2012 - 09:05pm PT
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Splitter, you have a point but the term "Christianity" has been hijaked by people with media savvy and a racist agenda....why don't you good christians fight back? I know a lot of good is being done down in the trenches to help the poor and less fortunate...Mother Teresa comes to mind.
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Aug 29, 2012 - 10:28pm PT
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Do you wish me to address your other verses of concern?
Please do!
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luggi
Trad climber
from the backseat of Jake& Elwood Blues car
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Aug 29, 2012 - 10:43pm PT
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Squish...as it pertains to slavery mentioned in the bible...instead of addressing the climate of the time over and over again...I will just provide that when God provided legislation concerning slavery, does not mean that He approved of it. He was only protecting the civil rights of those enslaved.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Aug 29, 2012 - 10:45pm PT
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Quite a stretch Luggi....quite a stretch.
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Aug 29, 2012 - 10:49pm PT
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I see your point, and I understand it, you are proving my points by pointing these things out...it goes both ways, written for a different time, that time is still not NOW!! so why would we listen to the bible about anything? I want you to address the other items el cap listed, that was some awesome stuff...I have always wondered about each and every one and there's much more than that, like how you are entitled to a sister when your wife dies...and how a man can cheat and a woman cannot....please explain each one in context of the time it was written....because for each one you remove the meaning of the bible for THIS TIME AND PLACE...making it even more irreverent to anything in my life...
I challenge you Christians, bor me again...
If his message flows through the faithful and is infallible, then let it be...let it flow from your lips, convert me!!!
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Aug 29, 2012 - 10:53pm PT
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hen God provided legislation concerning slavery, does not mean that He approved of it
Hahahahahlololol11!!11.
So your all loving lord GOD almighty, omniscient, all powerful, would rather "legislate" about slavery and leave it in existence, causing untold misery and suffering among innocent people, than to wave his magic all powerful wand that created the heavens and earth in six days and just do away with the slavery? Or smite the slave holders? Or strike them down and cast them out?
Um, sure, ok. That makes sense.
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 29, 2012 - 10:56pm PT
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Pipe down fools.
Yer all stupid slaves to your own run away out of control minds ......
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splitter
Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Aug 29, 2012 - 11:12pm PT
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I just wanted to add this...
In my opinion, there is something very wrong with America. It is prollie difficult for many to see, since it has been a slow, insidious process. But, just take a look at the current situation with pornography. It is literally available to anyone who desires it via the internet. Evidently there are over 350,000 internet porn sites. And the #1 demographic age group is from 10-16y.o.! More so than any other, middle aged men included. What does that say about our country, let alone what it has birthed/produced for the rest of the world. The porn industry says it doesn't have to advertise for new flesh, it gets emails by the thousands daily from young kids who are just waiting to turn 18 to become "porn stars" and they, the porn industry, eagerly awaits them. And the drug situation herein America, over 50,000 deaths, beheading's, etc., in one drug corridor/pipeline to America alone. Simply to feed our lusts. All in the name of the drug and sexual revolution of the 60's. Yeah, some revolution, eh? Those are just two, I could name more.
So, my point, wake up Church! Do you think that POLITICS are going to change a damn thing?
If you do, ya better get yer nose back into the Bible and see what JC had to say about politics.
And in my opinion, it may change a few laws, but it will not change anyone's heart. We have a heart/soul problem here in America, not a political problem. The "Church" (the vocal/visible "church") has messed up its priority's. Not saying that some of the issues are not legitimate. That they have become a massive political focus says something about our nation and where it is/has become. Politics isn't going to change a damn thing at this point.
Well, major departure from the OP's original request for a simple declaration of our faith in JC, sorry about that. LATA!!
elCap,
You haven't read the OT,thatis forsure. God did smite them over and over. And slavery was onlyone of their problems, they were sacrificing their own kids to foriegn "gods" for crying out loud. The vast majority of prophets were killed. Elijah, for example, was a wanted man that ran and hid in a cave at one point. Look what eventually happened to Jerusalem. It was surrounded in 70AD, sieged for two years or so. The people that didn't starve to deathe were later slaughtered by the Roman's (over 1,000,000)! And then the Temple was torn down. All of this was prophesied, in the OT and by JC himself! Of course, it means nothing to you, it is all just myth, blah, blah, blah...& therefore so be it, & I cud give a flying FOOOK what ya believe!
One thing is for certain, ya can't say that He (God) wasn't patient with Israel! And, imo, he is being very patient with America (the "church" included).
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Aug 29, 2012 - 11:28pm PT
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it is all just myth
correct
man created gods to give explanation to a terrifying natural world
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Aug 29, 2012 - 11:36pm PT
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Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts
so god turned men into homosexuals in order to punish them for something?
what could possibly have pissed god off so much to make Him be such a vengeful prick?
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Aug 29, 2012 - 11:52pm PT
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My opinion is that a lot of what was supported by the bible was "indecent", as el cap listed so well. Are we to assume then that every thing in the bible must be taken literally and infallibly? If we believe just one of those things, we must believe them all...and I must now go out and kill anyone working on Saturday...or it is Sunday now?
If faith is a personal thing, personal belief, right? Then why does my belief need to be changed? why are you instructed to go out and change people's belief, to bring people into the flock, when what they believe is none of your #$%^#$%ing business? You know, according to your own faith...
It's nothing but contradiction, the word mystery is all they have to explain it, because that's what it is, a #@$%!#$ing mystery why anyone in this day and age would believe it...
I will leave the thread, I have said enough..I will leave you with this...
In the information age! Ignorance is a choice...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Aug 29, 2012 - 11:54pm PT
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Norton...Yes , God will turn you into a homosexual or even worse , a Romney supporter....So renounce your party affiliation and vote for Obama.......you fag....!
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splitter
Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Aug 30, 2012 - 12:05am PT
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rj,
It says, he turned them over to their own lusts! it doesn't say he turned them into anything (as Norton suggested)!
So, if you should find yerself gawking at some beastiality (or however it's spelled/don't want to google it, lol) porno site, beware...might end up finding yerself in bed with the neighbors anaconda, or something! lol
edit: RJ, i suspected as much (from Norton), he is a cool guy, in most respects, but is a bit opinionated & driven, perhaps (i shud talk). so, slack given, but i will keep ya on belay shud ya yell "tension" or "up rope, mofo"! lol
Just joking about you and the Anaconda, btw! Actually, i had this distinct picture of Norton and a ... oh well, never mind (don't wanna dwell on it)! lol
edit/edit: Wow, just double checked Norton's avatar & it musta been Darwin that I had "this distinct picture of..." not Norton ... yikes!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Aug 30, 2012 - 12:08am PT
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splitter....Norton pays me to post this sh#t on supertopo so cut me some f*#king slack...RJ
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Aug 30, 2012 - 01:08am PT
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Homosexuality is absolutely wrong, as are many other things that mankind sinfully partakes in. To think otherwise then you haven't read The Good Book from cover to cover, and have artificially cherry-picked and used G-D's word in error.
Even Satan can do that. He knows the word of G-D very well and uses it out of context to fool his victims. Satan even attempted to use the Word of G-D against Yeshua. Unbelievable really. But Emmanuel, G-D with Us, Yeshua put him in his place.
It isn't judging to call sin wrong. The word of G-D already does so thoroughly from the beginning in the OT all the way to the end in the NT. The word of G-D already judges and lets us know what sin is and what the consequences are. We aren't to judge. G-D is the final and ultimate judge. We are to point out wrongdoing from brother to brother, and sister to sister in the Lord, in the faith. That isn't judging. (Yes, and that means you better have your own spiritual house clean to do so.) Judging is the determination of the ultimate judgement. Only G-D has the authority to do that. We don't know what is happening between G-D and another person at any given moment in time. A human being can come to G-D and ask forgiveness in their last dying breath and we won't know. Only G-D knows.
Just read the 10 Commandments. How many do we break time and time again? The wages of sin are physical death, and more importantly spiritual death. However, we all will be resurrected from death. All of us will be. But the question is, will you be in the first resurrection unto life? Or will you be in the second resurrection unto spiritual death and eternal separation from G-D?
Christians are not perfect. They will stumble and fall. But if they have truly asked G-D, Heshem Adonai Elohim, for forgiveness of their sins through the blood shed by the Lamb of G-D for the redemption of all sin for all time, our Adonai and redeamer, Yeshua HaMashiach, Jesus The Messiah, and they have truly allowed Yeshua into their heart to change them, then they will be born again. They will be a new creature in Yeshua. Their lives will change for the better. They will bear good fruit.
You can be a fruit inspector off to the side if you want to be, but if it is genuine they will change. They can't help but not to. And like-wise, if they say they are a Christian and they bear no fruit, then they deceive themselves. The truth is not in them. Again, you aren't judging. The Good Book even says so. G-D more than likely isn't finished with them yet. You may have given up on them, but Hashem Adonai Elohim hasn't.
Will we (Christians), be perfect and go and sin no more for the rest of our Earthly lives? No. But that is the standard we should shoot for. That is what Yeshua asked us to do. But he knows we will fall. He's there to pick us up spiritually speaking. How often should we forgive our brothers and sisters and others everyday in our lives? 70 X 7. That is what G-D does for us when we come to him and ask forgiveness. Talk about patience!
G-D does that for us when we are under the redemptive blood of Yeshua our savior and our HaMashiach, our Messiah. He forgives us. That doesn't mean we are to abuse that forgiveness. If you go on living your life like the devil, and the Holy Spirit of G-D is not within you changing you, then you deceive yourself. You are then a "Christian" in name only. You're not really fooling anyone else. But then you do discredit your Christian testimony, and as we see, others will indeed use that against you. And G-D will judge you. He says so.
It's a journey of love and forgiveness, and it takes a lifetime to complete. Everyone is at a different place along the journey that have come back to G-D under the blood of Jesus Christ. We aren't all at the same place. But one day, in Yeshua we will be perfected and we will be like him.
Keith Green - Asleep in the Night
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXb45UTUFWU
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Keith Green - Make My Life A Prayer To You
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNww8F6G9U8
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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skamoto
Mountain climber
coalinga ca
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Aug 30, 2012 - 01:22am PT
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Don't wana piss anyone off at all. Every American is entitled to there own beliefs but I'm wondering what Christians think about other religions? Do people from other religions who do not believe in Christ go straight to hell for not believing in him? Or what happens to a super smart scientist like Steven hawkings who believes that science has proved God doesn't exist. But he is a nice good hearted fella. What happens to him? Like I said not trying to start fights or say anyone is wrong and u must believe in what I do. This is just from curiosity
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splitter
Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Aug 30, 2012 - 01:31am PT
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skamoto,
dood, if ya are really that "curious", why don't ya find out fer yerself, get it right from the horses mouth & read one of the 4 gospels, The Gopel of John for instance? i mean, that is where we drew our knowledge from, so why shouldn't you also? why depend on what one of s have to say about it. read it, and draw yer own conclusions!!
edit: just saying, no matter what you hear some preacher, pastor, evangelist, tele-evangelist or someone on the internet say, ya should double check what JC had to say about it via one of the four gospel's!
edit: i have given my opinion on the subject many times here on ST over the past 4-5 years, don't care to do so any longer. best advice i have, i just gave to you above. and, i did spend 3 years of my youth (7th-9th grade)in SLC, Utah and all my friends, teachers, neighbors, etc., were LDS. So, i can sympathize with your situation (or what i suspect it was like). Shouldn't force children to do anything, imo. I got to know several kids in the same situation as you in SLC. Some loved it, others deplored it. i was never forced to go to church, or whatever. Even though my family were Catholic, but i did end up seeking out the truth for myself. Perhaps i was just fortunate, imo.
"Your comment surprised me!" -- I just checked and noticed you have only been posting here on ST for about one month (since July 16th, 2012) wait another year or so, and frequent all the "religious" threads, and political ones fer that matter! They have become much more nicer, in regards to respect to each other, in the last six months or so (secondary to a bunch of doods getting booted off) but still, it gets very old very fast ...same old questions, same old replys from the athiest, etc, blah, blah, blah...! It serves no point, imo!
besides, preacher's "preach", i am not a preacher. plenty of preachers out there for you to tune into, even on the internet. just google one of them, I'm sure you have heard of plenty. Billy Graham or his son Franklin,for instance. Simply google their name and ask the same question and you will get an answer. prollie better than the onei could give ya. Or just google "what does JC say in the bible about _ _ _ _ ! Just like you asked me,prollie give ya the same answer. As far as the Mormons areconcerned, I would simply stick with what the bible says, not what some other book says. But that is your decision, not mine.
Plus, I have already done a way to much "preaching" on this here thread, i don't believe it was the OP's intention for any of us to do so, i kind of blew it in that regard! Oh well!
Got to go, it is past my bed time (11:15)... nice talking with ya, gud night!!
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skamoto
Mountain climber
coalinga ca
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Aug 30, 2012 - 01:39am PT
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Well splitter I have. I was raised a Mormon and was forced to read the Bible a lot. I have my own opinions about it. I was just wondering if someone wanted to share there's. Super uncommon for a Christian to not wana preach though. Your comment surprised me.
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skamoto
Mountain climber
coalinga ca
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Aug 30, 2012 - 02:32am PT
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LOL I like your style split. I am no longer Mormon. I don't believe ill get to rule my own planet when I die like they tought us. And fair enough about DLL u said. I totally agree pretty much just thought it would be Interesting . I'm not athiest either. Sorry if I got your blood boiling was not my intention
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Aug 30, 2012 - 04:41am PT
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As I was informed, Christ came to liberate the Jews from the Mosaic tradition, hence the Promised One of Isaiah. The old laws are not the primary concern of the Messiah. The Law of Moses is no longer in command. Isn't this a broad outline of Christianity? Is it worth debating any of these old Jewish beliefs held in common with their neighbors?
Good shot, Tami! We all ducked, you sniper...
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