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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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Aug 22, 2012 - 12:06am PT
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I thought the erection was in November.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 22, 2012 - 12:07am PT
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I like to tie independent knots at the ends of both ropes if I feel the need for it. If you tie the rope ends together, the twisting of the ropes that can happen rappelling will have no outlet so it can create a mess at the end of the rope
Peace
karl
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 22, 2012 - 12:20am PT
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What Karl said plus I find it easier to throw the two ropes more accurately
if done separately. Plus, if you mess up and hang one on a flake it is
easier to get one back than the two tied together.
I picked up a good habit from Uncle Fred BITD - I don't leave the ground on
anything big without three prussiks in my left pocket. The right pocket is
for the knife in case all else fails.
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Chad Taylor
Gym climber
Phoenix
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Aug 22, 2012 - 12:20am PT
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That makes a lot of sense. Thanks Karl.
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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Aug 22, 2012 - 12:27am PT
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Sometime a few years ago I did start carrying a knife in my chalkbag, but I'm still pretty terrible about not keeping prussiks with me, and often have found myself at belay stations with minimal or insufficient slingery. I need to fix that. One simple fix... switch my chalk bag shoelace that I tie around my waist to a 9/16" nylon tubular webbing.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 22, 2012 - 12:31am PT
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I pretty much always carry a few extra free biners, a couple 24 inch slings and an extra 48 on everything. A lot of stuff can be rigged with just that.
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Wen
Trad climber
Bend, OR
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Aug 22, 2012 - 12:39am PT
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That rant kicked a**!
At the risk of sounding like a numb nuts, how does the partner at the belay secure both strands of the fully weighted rope?
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Aug 22, 2012 - 12:46am PT
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Wrap both strands with a runner/prussic and then I would wrap the strand I was going down on with an extra prussic. Of course if you had an extra Jumar, clamp that bad boy onto the strand and clip it into the anchor... instant fixed line. Or wrap each strand with a separate prussic.... or wrap the not-knot side with some sort of multi wrap prussic/klemheist/bachman or whatever the fancy f*#king knot is and clip it into the anchor.
I would bet if you tied the two strands together just below the rings with shoelace there will be enough friction that the lines will hold fast. Damn! This is almost long enough for another AudioRant™™™
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Googlymoogly
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 22, 2012 - 12:57am PT
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"I never placed the blame on my partner"
Really?
1. "While I was setting up the quick links my friend started to pull the ropes." (Translate: Richard f-ed up when I wasn't watching).
2. "my friend didn’t have a helmet with him. I guess not everyone uses them but he left his at the car saying it didn’t fit (it was a unisize) and didn’t tell me until we were in the middle of the descent." (translate: Richard bought a helmet that did not fit, then left it in the car.)
3. "Now he had pulled a rope with a knot in the end. It surprised me." (see #1 above)
4. Nothing eventful happened until Richard got stuck (emphasis: RICHARD got stuck)
5. "he thought the bottom set of anchors was the correct set. I understood his logic and really didn’t give it much thought knowing we had a 50/50 chance and that if we messed up we could just come up and use the other anchor (Translate: Richard got the anchors wrong, and he should have been able to ascend after making this critical mistake)
6. "Richard had forgotten the ascenders up with me." (Translate: Richard f-ed up again by forgetting the ascenders)
7. "It was really obvious at this point that he had already given up and I honestly feel he had given up within a minute or two of deciding he was stuck." (Translate: Richard gave up right away. He was just a puss)
8. The rescuer talked to Richard for a while and it was obvious that he was hoping for YOSAR to come grab him. (see #7 above).
9. "I knew Richard knew how to use prussiks but suddenly it was like a new skill to him." (see #s 7 and 8 above)
10. "At first he claimed they were slipping which didn’t make any sense but after some prodding by the rescuer he started to go up." (Translate: Richard was making excuses for why he needed a rescue)
11. "At this point Richard got on the radio and asked very simply “Can you guys just have a helicopter come get me?” I think he had seen the YOSAR article in Maxim
magazine about a chopper rescue on El Cap." (Translate: Richard, in his ignorance, thought a helicopter rescue was relatively trivial and opted for that rather than toughing it out.)
12. "As they got to the top of camp five Chris asked me how I and Richard were doing. I told them Richard was glad they were there and that I was alright." (Translate: Richard needed the rescue, not me, I was fine)
13. "I asked Paul what code 4 meant and he said that meant Richard was fine." (Translate: Richard was fine, he really did not need a rescue.)
14. We got in his car and as he turned the key we heard, “click click click click click click click.” Somehow his battery had died. (Emphasis on HIS car and HIS battery).
His battery? really?! If I had said it was my battery I would have been lying. That is a pathetic example. In every situation you just mentioned I was at fault for not avoiding it in the first place. That is not placing the blame on Richard
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S.Leeper
Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
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Aug 22, 2012 - 01:02am PT
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Thanks for the play by play Chris.
Bet this post hits 1k post, easy.
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BurntToast
climber
CA
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Aug 22, 2012 - 01:10am PT
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"His battery? really?! If I had said it was my battery I would have been lying. That is a pathetic example."
I will give you that point. But it did seem to fit the pattern. You could have just said "the car" and "the battery" and been more neutral.
"In every situation you just mentioned I was at fault for not avoiding it in the first place."
You are correct to acknowledge this point, especially since you were apparently the leader of the trip.
"That is not placing the blame on Richard."
I doubt I am the only one to interpret your trip report as placing the majority of the blame on your partner. Thank you for more clearly acknowledging your fault. It would be very interesting to hear your partners point of view.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Aug 22, 2012 - 01:28am PT
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Quote Here Bullsh#t. He assumed the OP was a troll, and smugly said stay away. Maybe if he or any of the rest of us were Mentors he or any of the rest of us would have given him some good input, and or asked some relivent questions.
Spot on due to lack of "Mentoring"
Prod.
BS,
Deans advice was spot in. prophetic even.
i dont like tying knots in my rope either. sorry but if you need them then you should not be rapping off. it is faster without. but you damn well need to have your sh#t together.
i have retreated off of walls in yos, zion, wind rivers and alaska, let alone rapping of many desert spires. never tied knots and never let go of the ropes. rule #1, keep your sh#t together and these guys failed miserably.
i am not disagreeing with these that choose to tie knots, just saying i have never done so
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Aug 22, 2012 - 03:30am PT
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Russ noted:
Really? Hauling the guy up to get slack in the cord? Hmmmmm.....
Hmm, good point.
I was trying to think of a way to fix both strands, given an uncooperative partner at the bottom, so I could jumar down one strand, and then coach him to prusik up the other one while I'm alongside.
I don't like the idea of one or two people on a strand that is secured by a prusik with just friction.
*If* the rope is through rings guaranteed too small for the knot to pass through, then that limits the rope movement in one direction. Then a tied sling around the rope below the knot on the other strand will limit movement in the other direction.
Or, if Chris had more quicklinks, those could be placed on both sides of the knot to limit travel in both directions (also handles a situation where rope is not through rings). I am not advocating carrying quicklinks for this special case, but if he already had them....
[edit:] As in my prior post, I agree with Karl - I would not expect guys without big wall experience will not be able to figure out this self rescue stuff out there in the field. Which is why the progression of doing big walls first before rapping El Cap makes sense.
I have to wonder, though, how the Royal Arches rappel route fits in with this pattern - relative beginners do it, guided by more experienced folks. But it seems like a potential place where people will get stuck sometimes and not have self-rescue experience or options. Although descending North Dome gully has been a source of accidents as well....
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crasic
climber
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Aug 22, 2012 - 03:39am PT
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You could also haul both lines with a third rope, that they left up top for not real understandable reason.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 22, 2012 - 03:39am PT
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Heck, it's only guys with wall experience that have the skills (plus some sar guys and geeks) to deal creatively with stuff like this.
With a set of ascenders, some biners, and prussik cords he could have just rigged a haul and dragged him all the way back to the anchor. Particularly since after a few feet, he wouldn't be under the roof anymore and could be walking up the walk instead of dragging.
You only have to haul one line as long as there's a knot in the end of that line. You might have to rig a little mechanical advantage to get started but it would get easier quick
When I've taught people to haul in the past, I've often used myself as the haulbag for practice and I weigh 190
Peace
Karl
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crasic
climber
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Aug 22, 2012 - 04:02am PT
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Heck, it's only guys with wall experience that have the skills (plus some sar guys and geeks) to deal creatively with stuff like this.
I disagree, I have no big wall experience and marginal Grade IV experience (although my roadmap to Grade V/VI is planned out :D), but I practice stupid things like this on a weekly basis. Go to the local practice crag (luckily its a city park 5 minutes drive away) and set up weird situations to get out of, or practice a new rope technique. Obviously this doesn't beat solid vertical wall experience, but at the same time, I wouldn't feel comfortable trying a system 2500' off the deck if I didn't figure out all the stupid details and intricacies that I could on my 50 foot crag.
From what I've read/heard from Chris and others that know him my experience level on walls compares to Chris's (and our age is about the same), and I wouldn't have tried to do what he did simply because I'm aware of how little I know and how much I can f*#k up without realizing it. At the very least I would have never agreed to lead something like this.
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Googlymoogly
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 22, 2012 - 04:07am PT
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It would be very interesting to hear your partners point of view. I can't speak for him but I have seen what he has put on Facebook and told other people. He has very clearly stated that if he had left his pack on the rope and ascended without it he could have gotten to the top just fine and seems to feel that would have made the difference. He has said quite a bit more that I think shows his feelings on everything but explaining that is probably risking it looking like I am blaming him.
More interesting would be some pics of his buddy dangling over the Great Roof.
got any, Chris? I don't. From my vantage point I couldn't see him and my camera battery was dead anyways.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 22, 2012 - 04:10am PT
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Heck, it's only guys with wall experience that have the skills (plus some sar guys and geeks) to deal creatively with stuff like this.
I disagree, I have no big wall experience and marginal Grade IV experience (although my roadmap to Grade V/VI is planned out :D), but I practice stupid things like this on a weekly basis...
Yes, but few do that like you do and that makes you a geek. (included in my statement) I promise you most regular climbers don't have the guts or knowledge to raise a stranded climber 200 feet or go down to him on a tight rope, particularly 2000 feet off the deck.
But he had all the tools he needed (I think) to do just that. There's this chess like thinking and understanding of the gear that's developed when you climb walls, get messed up and repeatedly have to create ways to get unstuck, unscrewed and unclustered
Peace
Karl
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crasic
climber
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Aug 22, 2012 - 04:29am PT
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Yes, but few do that like you do and that makes you a geek. (included in my statement) I promise you most regular climbers don't have the guts or knowledge to raise a stranded climber 200 feet or go down to him on a tight rope, particularly 2000 feet off the deck.
Interesting, I guess I grew up around a different mountaineering/climbing culture, with my dad and his friends being trained in the soviet school which has a more methodological approach to the game.
But its also possible I'm a geek.
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crasic
climber
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Aug 22, 2012 - 04:40am PT
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How many of those climbers who must live near your practice area do you see out there practicing?
Its hard to tell, our outdoor club does rope/anchor/climbing training out there on occasion. There are other clubs that go there as well (last week there was a caving club practicing their jugging and rappeling). There are a lot of people simply climbing, because it has accesible TR. But number of climbers that independently go there to practice rope technique? Probably not many.
edit: Also the place has been used for practice of that sort since the beginning of the last century. Cragmont park in Berkeley for those who know it.
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