Three Cups of Tea disputed

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Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Apr 22, 2011 - 03:03am PT
How do you guys manage your NGOs?
Ain't no flatlander

climber
Apr 22, 2011 - 12:30pm PT
Could be a simple mistake of north and south.
(He also would have had to cross the glacial river at some point to do it.)
Is there a bridge or a ford up there?

Amicus, you are correct. It's impossible to end up in Korphe by mistake while heading down valley. By that time of year, the river is pretty much unfordable. According to Nazir Sabir, in those days, there was only a rope bridge that required help to cross. It's fairly easy to get lost while on the glacier if nobody is around. But once you step off the Baltoro, even if you are wasted, there is no way to accidentally end up on the south side of the river. This entire episode was a flat out lie.
squish

Social climber
bc
Apr 22, 2011 - 12:32pm PT
Board of Directors have "duty of care".
Wilstie and Hornbein quit before the book was released, so monies were not in the amount of they are today.
However past and present directors failed to report any problems and they will have to live with that. I don't know the legal aspect of this.
It appears they saved JK a bit of money and I am sure in certain circles it was well known "not to give".


I will give a vote to Chris Bonington as I have met him and was invited to visit him in the Lake District if in England.

He gets extra points for being a climber's climber. I have met JK and not so.

I have met a couple of editors who have worked with many top climbers and they are the very hard to deal with in many aspects.

Another article and point of view from Pat Morrow, a well known and respected climber, writer and photographer who worked with GM and knows the region very well had this to say:

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/arts/books/canadian-climber-condemns-witch-hunt-for-mortenson/article1995333/?service=mobile
zeta

Trad climber
Berkeley
Apr 22, 2011 - 12:50pm PT
I just finally read JK's piece. I was please to see an Anthropologist friend of mine is cited in this, Nosheen Ali, who works in Gilgit/Hunza region. Her piece that is referenced in the article is really worth finding, if you want to read more:

“Books vs. Bombs? Humanitarian Development and the Narrative of Terror in Northern Pakistan,” published in the academic journal Third World Quarterly. Here's the abstract:

This article examines the role of humanitarian discourse and development in reconfiguring the contemporary culture of empire and its war on terror. It takes as its point of entry the immensely popular biographical tale, Three Cups of Tea, which details how the American mountaineer Greg Mortenson has struggled to counter terrorism in Northern Pakistan through the creation of schools. Even as this text appears to provide a self-critical and humane perspective on terrorism, the article argues that it constructs a misleading narrative of terror in which the realities of Northern Pakistan and Muslim life-worlds are distorted through simplistic tropes of ignorance, backwardness and extremism, while histories of US geopolitics and violence are erased. The text has further facilitated the emergence of a participatory militarism, whereby humanitarian work helps to reinvent the military as a culturally sensitive and caring institution in order to justify and service the project of empire.

If anyone wants a copy, send me a PM and I'll send you a copy.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Apr 22, 2011 - 01:30pm PT

I do think he has misrepresented some very important facts of his own, especially regarding Anatoli Boukrev and Lopsang Sherpa?
Boukrev was awarded the American Alpine Clubs highest honor for heroism, and Krakauer found a way to HOLYWOOD it up and make him the villan. There was No vilian other than greed.

Allegations of misrepresentation also surround his book into the wild.

Ezra, I would be careful of stating that an allegation of something is evidence of ANYTHING, particularly if time has gone by, and nothing has come of the allegation. I could accuse you of something right here, then forever after, that could be used as "evidence" that you are an unethical person, eh?

As for Everest, I'm puzzled by your assertion. Jon was actually there, and he recounted what he saw, and how he interpreted what he saw. I've read all the published books of those who were up there, and I've met and discussed it with several......and all of those accounts support JK. By the way, the biggest supporter of of AB's heroism......is JK.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Apr 22, 2011 - 01:32pm PT
This isn't just about good intentions, it's about making $5,000,000
.... Mortenson who apparently pocketed very penny from his book after his ghost-writer received his cut.

=
Perhaps you (and Krakaeur) would like to present us with evidence of this with pictures of Mortensens mansion, sports cars, hookers, and yacht.


That's pretty disingenuous. Isn't his bank account enough?

rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Apr 22, 2011 - 01:54pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
you see, we do have some smart kids coming up....
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Apr 22, 2011 - 02:34pm PT
No GM will be fine, he'll get Fort Mental-Midget to defend him with his biting, incisive wit and everything will be good in their fantasy land once more.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Apr 22, 2011 - 03:10pm PT
Yes, with CAI, most money was used as intended. Only 41% went schools, but that doesn't bother me as most of the rest was used to build an endowment or for public outreach. The amount allegedly misspent is only a fraction of the CAI budget, although it is a significant fraction.

Graniteclimber, your note above does not jibe with the actual financial statement from the charity, although I see this 41% being quoted around:

https://www.ikat.org/wp-includes/documents/Financials/CAIAuditedFSFYE%209-30-09.pdf

in 2009, they took in 13 million dollars. spend about 4 million (that is NOT 41%)(maybe-you don't know with this creative accounting....how much of that went for what, exactly. There is also the common practice of giving a vendor x amount of dollars for an inflated contract, then they give you 1/2 x back in cash "for your business".)


"The Organization received donations during the year ended September 30, 2009 from two board
members, in the amount of $13,200 and $10,000."

Wasn't that generous of Greg and his wife, out of their likely 5 million of income?
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Apr 22, 2011 - 03:17pm PT
The 41% figure is from media reports. I looked for more information about it and found this.


http://www.dawn.com/2011/04/20/inquiry-into-%E2%80%98three-cups%E2%80%99-charity.html

Tax information filed with the Internal Revenue Service for the fiscal year ending Sept. 30, 2009, the most recent available, put the charity’s expenses at $9.7 million. Of that, $3.9 million _ about 41 percent _ was spent on building materials, teacher salaries, scholarships and other expenses related to school building.

A larger amount, $4.6 million, was spent on what was described in the tax documents as ”domestic outreach and education” and ”lectures and guest appearances across the United States.” Mortenson, who is the Central Asia Institute’s executive director and a board member, received $180,747 in compensation that year.

More than $1.5 million of the charity’s expenses went to advertising and marketing Mortenson’s books.

Ken M., they are using the same data as you, but the 41% calculation is based school expenditures divided by total expenses, not what they took in. The situation is worse than I thought.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 22, 2011 - 04:00pm PT
We should be focusing on restoring honor to the climbing community, where being taken at one's word is essential.
That is why it is neccesary for GM to be piloried despite the substantial good he has done.


We should NOT be debating who is the better climbing author,..




















since we all know Tom Patey was the best!
Gene

climber
Apr 22, 2011 - 06:09pm PT
Zeta at al.

I found a link to the Nosheen Ali paper.

http://www.webofdemocracy.org/atips_and_foias_uploaded/booksvbombs.pdf

I've only glanced at the piece but it looks informative.
g

EDIT: I just finished reading this article. Please read it.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Apr 22, 2011 - 08:04pm PT
Rewritten for the mental fort.

This article investigates how expansive new security projects have gained both legitimacy and immediacy as part of the ‘global war on terror’ by analysing the process that led to the fencing and securitising of the border between the United States and Mexico. The framing of the ‘enemy other’ in the global war on terror relies on two crucial shifts from previous geopolitical boundary narratives. First, the enemy other is described as not only being violent but also as outside the boundaries of modernity. Second, the enemy other is represented as posing a global and interconnected threat that is no longer limited by geography. These two shifts are used to justify the new preventative responses of pre-emptive military action abroad and the securitisation of the borders of the state. This article argues that in the United States the good and evil framing of the global war on terror was mapped onto longstanding communal distinctions between the Democrats and Republicans. In the process, Mexico and increasingly people from Central and South generally are described as violent, irrational and a threat to the security of the American state. These changes led to a profound shift in the borderlands of New Mexico, and Arizona, where fencing and securitising the border with Mexico was previously resisted, but now is deemed essential. The article concludes that the framing of the war on terror as a global and interconnected problem has allowed sovereign states to consolidate power and move substantially closer to the territorial ideal of a closed and bounded container of an orderly population by attempting to lock down political borders.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Apr 22, 2011 - 08:45pm PT
Mr. Morrow is in his corner. He says no one should doubt Mr. Mortenson’s good work.


No one should DOUBT? Sorry, but Saint Greg is not above doubt any more than any other person should be.


Mr. Morrow and his wife, Baiba, were hired by Mr. Mortenson several years ago to do a promotional film on a network of new schools established in northern Pakistan and Afghanistan.


Ah, Mr. Morrow, Greg's EMPLOYEE.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Apr 22, 2011 - 08:54pm PT
So... you know that Greg Mortenson has $5,000,000 in his bank account?

I know a minimum of what he has been paid (salary listed in financial reports, book royalties, book lecture honorariums). Easily discovered.

I know what he has contributed to his charity (listed in the financial reports)

I think he has FAR more in his bank accounts/investments.
Roger Breedlove

climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Apr 22, 2011 - 11:01pm PT
After reading some of the overly certain posts on Mortenson's legal liabilities, I looked up the IRS definition of excess benefits that are cited in Krakauer article.

An excess benefit transaction is a transaction in which an economic benefit is provided by an applicable tax-exempt organization, directly or indirectly, to or for the use of a disqualified person, and the value of the economic benefit provided by the organization exceeds the value of the consideration received by the organization.

Mortenson is the disqualified person since he is the head of CAI. Mortenson, through the CAI board, has responded to this issue of excess benefit by stating that CAI gained far greater benefits than Mortenson has. This seems to be borne by the numbers that everyone is quoting.

I cannot see any other legal fraud; my guess is that Mortenson will not face any sever legal liabilities. CAI may have to clean up its reporting to the IRS.

I would still guess that CAI and Mortenson are toast since just about everyone thinks that the arrangement for the education and outreach part of the program stinks.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 23, 2011 - 12:25am PT
Ah, Mr. Morrow, Greg's EMPLOYEE.

I have no dog in this fight. I don't know anything about GM, and don't much care. Mr. Morrow, on the other hand, is steel to the core. If he says he didn't see anything amiss, then he didn't see anything amiss.

That doesn't mean there weren't things he didn't see, or that GM is a saint. But you should maybe reconsider talking sh#t about people you know nothing about.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Apr 23, 2011 - 12:29am PT
If this thread has nothing else, it's got plenty of people talking sh#t about those they know nothing about.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Apr 23, 2011 - 01:28am PT
I have no dog in this fight. I don't know anything about GM, and don't much care. Mr. Morrow, on the other hand, is steel to the core. If he says he didn't see anything amiss, then he didn't see anything amiss.

That doesn't mean there weren't things he didn't see, or that GM is a saint. But you should maybe reconsider talking sh#t about people you know nothing about.

Ah, we have another Saint in the mix. Of course, I don't know Morrow. I also know that he is not without bias. Who, made of steel to the core, does not stand up for a friend?

I also know that he made an accusation against 60 minutes that was BS: using parts of his film without his permission.

Uhhhh....it is NOT his film. It is Greg's film, bought and paid for. He is the filmmaker, who made it for Greg's marketing. Just like a marketing firm that makes an ad for a corporation's marketing, when that corporation starts using it, if it gets picked up by the media and shown, the marketing firm does NOT need to give permission!
So, this STEEL GUY seems to have a bit of an honesty issue, himself.

He should consider what tar baby he chooses to associate himself with.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Apr 23, 2011 - 02:05am PT
Uhhhh....it is NOT his film. It is Greg's film, bought and paid for. He is the filmmaker, who made it for Greg's marketing. Just like a marketing firm that makes an ad for a corporation's marketing, when that corporation starts using it, if it gets picked up by the media and shown, the marketing firm does NOT need to give permission!
So, this STEEL GUY seems to have a bit of an honesty issue, himself.

He should consider what tar baby he chooses to associate himself with.

Word.
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