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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Mar 27, 2011 - 02:58pm PT
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Again. I did not do meetings. If they work for you that is great! I also did not substitute pot, pills or caffine, etc. I do feel cured and don't need anyone to tell me that I am not. I also know pretty darn clearly that I would Not be able to drink in moderation for any length of time so I am cured as long as I stay cured and stay away from the sauce.
After 23 years working in bars and restaruntes I can tell you with 100% certanty that moderation will not work for any serious drunk. End of story.
Little sobriety test for serious climbers/drinkers.
Quit drinking Saturday evening after climbing. Stay 100% sober all week. No weed, no pills, no nothing other than caffine or nicotine if you are addicted to those. Make big climbing plans for next weekend. Set your reward beer date for after climbing next Sat. If you can climb hard and good Sat after a whole week of sobriety, drink one or 2 pints (beer not pints of wiggy) and wake up rareing to hike 2 hrs in on Sunday with a full multi pitch first ascent pack (drill, 2 batterys, 4ft prybar, hammer, bolts,pins, aiders, doubble trad rack to 5", 2 ropes, etc, etc then you most likly have your drinking under control.
If that week of sobriety followed by good hard climbing on sat and a known get out of jail free card for Sat night lures you into a bender sat evening and you wake up sunday feeling like you got dragged by a truck for 2 miles and slept it off in the middle of the road to the point that you change your back country FA plans to roadside cragging for sunday. You just might have a drinking problem.........
If you can't get through that first sunday without the sauce you definatly have a drinking problem.. If you fail at any time durring that week you got that drinking problem... If you make it through sat and sunday of the next weekend and get salior drunk sunday night instead if sat night you still have that drinking problem but you do have some mean willpower to make it that extra day.
If you make it through the weekend of hard climbing following the sober week with just a few beers and a great time, go to work monday with a sharp mind feeling battered and bruised from the workout instead of the celibration then chances are pretty good that moderation is not a problem for you...
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Chris2
Trad climber
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Mar 28, 2011 - 02:06pm PT
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tradmanclimbs any reliable links to that horrendous story of the woman in a moderation program who drank, blacked out and killed a little girl?
You seem to be saying something like this would never happen, to an individual participating in AA?
“Naturaly she started lieing to herself and everyone else.” And people don’t lie in AA programs?
I have discussed moderation management around AA followers before; it is interesting to see how angry they get.
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Anxious Melancholy
Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
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Mar 28, 2011 - 04:14pm PT
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got 9 months and relapsed...but back on it again and am at 6 weeks. Gonna keep at it until it sticks.
And Truthdweller, I find your not so veiled comment insulting. Not sure what AA interactions you've had, but many of these "drunks" who have tread this path before me are far from still "acting like one."
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Mar 28, 2011 - 04:21pm PT
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Chris. I am not in AA never have been. All I know about those guys is that they smoke a boatload of cigeretts. I quit drinking on my own. If you can drink in moderation more power to you. Heck if I could I would. Thing is though for folks who have a real problem it is probobly not possible..
That show i watched was either on Dateline or maybe the Biography channle. Pretty shure that the woman featured actually started the moderation movement?
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Mark Not-circlehead
climber
Martinez, CA
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Mar 28, 2011 - 04:34pm PT
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For most, it's an all or nothing deal. You are either drinking, or you're not......If moderation works for some, good for them.
I think the danger is in having someone who know they are out of control, and they need help, gravitate towards moderation because it's seems easier, or less painful. I think it would be thousands of times harder (if your anything like me....).
Keep doing whatever works, day by day, until the acuteness of the disease is not as prevalent, and you will have taken the first step in recovery.
It will be 11 years for me in a little less than a month (April 24th). It's not easy, but it's alot easier now...
Congrats to anyone else who has more than a day under their belt.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Mar 28, 2011 - 04:50pm PT
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Heck i think moderation would be pretty darn easy. If they let you drink 2 beers a day just buy BIG beers :) Seriously sounds sketchy takeing someone with a real problem and giveing them the opertunity to get sucked into the big lie.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Mar 28, 2011 - 05:15pm PT
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I suppose one thing you could try if you want to give moderation a shot is to just drink Heineken Light. That crap is so weak--I think it's weaker than the 3.2 they sell in Colo.
If you drink enough of it you may get a little beer buzz but mostly just gives a headache.
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Gene
climber
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Mar 30, 2011 - 09:41am PT
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Five days!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Mar 30, 2011 - 10:16am PT
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We're with you, Gene!
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Mar 30, 2011 - 02:03pm PT
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Another option to AA is Rational Recovery: https://rational.org/index.php?id=1 More of an atheists approach to the problem.
This alcoholism is a serious business, it killed my mother when I was 18, has killed several other friends over the years, recently killed a former girlfriend, and I've got 3 friends whose prospects are not great at the moment.
On the other hand, if I were to count 'em up, I've probably lost more friends to climbing.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Mar 30, 2011 - 02:11pm PT
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How do you count climbers who drink a lot and off themselves?
There are also 12 step books from buddhist, athest and other perspectives.
Offwhite (below) that's the kind of thing I was thinking of, I guess they're all, more complex...
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Mar 30, 2011 - 02:24pm PT
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Jaybro, I guess I'd count Raleigh as an alcohol casualty rather than climbing related, though I understand it was rather more complex than that.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Mar 30, 2011 - 02:53pm PT
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It's allways complicated but the bottom line is that the booze never makes it easier.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Mar 30, 2011 - 02:55pm PT
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Agreed!
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
Oakland
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Mar 30, 2011 - 03:02pm PT
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I know many more aa'ers who are non-smokers than who do smoke. Many people quit smoking after drinking, it kind of goes with the territory.
For the record, AA is non-denominational and has many agnostic and atheist members.
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Mar 30, 2011 - 03:36pm PT
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AA has helped an awful lot of people, and I know a number of them make it work despite the theistic incompatibility. I'd personally have an issue with that "higher power" bit, though I know someone who insisted the second to last pitch of Hoppy's Favorite, the 5.9 traverse where the glass was so clean your EB's would squeak, was his "higher power." Folks like me need to know there are other options that can lead to the same place.
Frankly, I'm nothing but impressed by all of you finding ways to control your addictions or lend support to those on that path. I find this thread really inspirational, and when I need a little pick me up to counter the foul taste of internet squabbling I'll go back and start reading this thread again as a reminder that online communities can be positive and supportive and make real differences in people's lives. Thumbs up all around.
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Michelle
Social climber
HVRP
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Mar 30, 2011 - 03:38pm PT
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I didn't all of this thread as I dont have the time right now. However, I had 9 months of sobriety until a couple weeks ago when life hit the fan. of course, I was going through intense therapy, most of it inpatient (thanks VA, you RULE). All kinds of things changed all at once for me, got word I never have to work again and get paid for it, which sounds cool except for the fact that I dont know how to do that.. I got a bitchen apt in Menlo Park and a bunch of neat toys. all kinds of great stuff. then some really bad stuff, ie got dumped by a dude, started even more intense therapy. It all adds up. looking at the abosulte value of stressers above or below "ok", my numbers were getting high. anyways, still sober today. I didn't lose all of the time I had over the years (my friends can attest to my numerous attempts). So I keep trying to plug along. Its tough though, especially lately. anyways, thats my 2 cents
good luck to all
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Mar 30, 2011 - 03:53pm PT
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Interestingly enough one of the seeds that planted the bug in my brain to quit drinking was an article that I read on RC.com that may have been linked from a UK climbing site by a climber who was on a kidny / liver ? machine from drinking. He chronicled how the mix of post climbing adrenalin and alcohol was so addicting and how he went from have a few pints on the weekends to being a full time drunk. I could relate to a lot of his experiences.. Especialy the ones where he had to abstain while on expidition in muslam countrys but always had that next drink on his mind. While not required to quit for any religious or work reasons every time I ever took a week or to off to try and give the filters a rest I thought about that next drink a lot!
The message was pretty clear. this could be you hooked up to a machine w/ no heLTH ins racking up bills to dump on the family and dying a horrible slow death. Stomach ulcers and acid reflex also worried me a lot as I experienced both regularly.
Shortly after reading that article I ran into a friend who is a great climber and notorious drunk. Offered him a beer and he said, No thanks, haven't had one in 6 months.. I was like wow! that planted the 2nd seed. If this guy can do and look so healthy then I can do it. Took about a week for the seeds to sprout and suddenly I wanted to quit. Was Not easy but I did it.
Not sure if it is possible to quit if you don't want to? I think you have to come to a place in your life where you really have had enough and you want the change.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Mar 30, 2011 - 04:59pm PT
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So I keep trying to plug along.
That's all anyone can do Michelle, good work and good luck!
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blackfly
climber
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Mar 31, 2011 - 02:51am PT
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3 years for me and counting.
All that can really be said is that there is a solution for those of us that want it and are willing to do the work. I want it, and I have it. I have no desire to pick up a drink and my obsession has been lifted. The hole in my being, the one that makes me feel different from every other person, is gone. If you are truly alcoholic, you know exactly what I mean when I talk about being different, and how alcohol makes you feel normal.
If you want it and don't know how to get it, pm me and we can talk.
I would also like to add that if you have a smartphone, there is a great app called "AA to go". It is a series of speaker tapes. The app costs $5, but there are over 200 tapes to download and listen to. If you live in a small town like I do where sometimes it's hard to hear the message, this app is for you. I have no affiliation, just love for this application because it has enlightened and inspired me daily.
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