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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Feb 25, 2015 - 07:26pm PT
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Being alive, not intelligence.
Keep up.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Feb 25, 2015 - 08:58pm PT
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"Live. Laugh. Behead."
"A surgeon says full-body transplants could become a reality in just two years. Sergio Canavero, a doctor in Turin, Italy, has drawn up plans to graft a living person’s head on to a donor body and claims the procedures needed to carry out the operation are not far off.
Canavero hopes to assemble a team to explore the radical surgery in a project he is due to launch at a meeting for neurological surgeons in Maryland this June.
He has claimed for years that medical science has advanced to the point that a full body transplant is plausible, but the proposal has caused raised eyebrows, horror and profound disbelief in other surgeons."
From The Guardian
And what fate awaits the soul?
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Feb 25, 2015 - 10:15pm PT
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And what fate awaits the soul?
The soul will find salvation on the back of a radio controlled drone ascending to the beatific vision within the "cloud" where all souls are compelled to watch bits of advertising and pay small monthly fees that will, no doubt, add up over time. If you don't believe me just ask the paradigm of artificial intelligence, Siri. For it is only through scientific progress that humanity finds fulfillment and the serenity of salvation in an acknowledgement of the absolute nature of evolution and the equivalence of human intelligence with that of your favorite fungus. Thank God we've dismissed the stupidity of myth for the certain brilliance of the scientific method! We are saved, though perhaps a bit depressed.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Feb 25, 2015 - 10:29pm PT
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If you don't believe me just ask the paradigm of artificial intelligence, Siri.
That would be @SiriouslySusan (Susan Bennett) the voice of Siri ,who followed your's truly on Twitter not long ago ---right out of the clear blue.
I'll not have any negative aspersions cast on my girl Susan.(Suze)
alright.
Case closed.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Feb 25, 2015 - 10:44pm PT
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Tvash: . . . idiotic proclamations about the death of AI . . .
And I might be among that group.
Let me rephrase: what AI can do has been pared back considerably. It is certainly used in many domains where bounded rationality and processing power are needed in large doses, but there is no longer the belief that it will achieve or mimic consciousness or awareness in even the far distant future. That appears to be fully out of the reach of anything that has been theoretically conceived plausibly. AI fully needs a completely different paradigm than the “information-processing” model.
As for that, AI relates to intelligence. I’d say we are much more than intelligence—“evolution” notwithstanding. (I understand many folk would argue this point.)
Consciousness is a gradual, evolutionary upgrade from much older capabilities. Just another evolutionary attribute, making it's way.
You have absolutely no basis for this declaration. At best, it is pure imagination. Sounds good, I guess, but you have no data other than retrospection—which looks 20/20, but that’s sensemaking in-process. Human beings can weave any story through a given "set of facts [sic]."
DMT: . . . all experiences are myth.
I can report that they aren’t. There is no story to experience AS experience, raw and pristine. It’s like looking into a kaleidoscope.
Nothing matters at all.
I wouldn’t agree as you articulate it. That’s a heavy-handed conceptualization. You’re saying that no-thing or nothing is a thing. It’s not like that. I don’t think you can see beyond or other than "things."
^^^^^^^
Really nice writing, Paul.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Feb 25, 2015 - 10:45pm PT
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That would be @SiriouslySusan (Susan Bennett) the voice of Siri ,who followed your's truly on Twitter not long ago ---right out of the clear blue.
I'll not have any negative aspersions cast on my girl Susan.(Suze)
alright.
Who would have thought there was a human behind all that electronic beauty... disparage her? I'm in love!
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Feb 25, 2015 - 10:52pm PT
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I see a new market for neck adaptors emerging.
If rejection occurs - which part do you throw away?
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Feb 25, 2015 - 10:55pm PT
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Susan Bennett, the voice of Siri, but more importantly the follower of Ward Trötter
Suze.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Feb 25, 2015 - 11:19pm PT
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When we create sentient beings, they may well be unique by individual - one ups. When such beings can last indefinitely through part replacements and upgrades, there needn't be more than one to maintain existence.
At that point we'll have stepped from a world with one intelligent species into one with many neo species, some with populations of only one, some with large variations between members, some basically clones, perhaps some with distributed intelligence, like a hive.
Some neo species will construct others or serve as components for larger hierarchical systems.
Can we handle sharing our dominion with such variety?
If we can come to some kind of an agreement, we may well enjoy it. Imagine a being that reads your thoughts and morphs into your current fantasy mate, only this one has a variety of attachments capable of operating in parallel - and fine tuned to your neural responses to amplify the resonance between you. Afterwards she pumps you full of painkillers and replaces a couple of fillings for you before a quick parting hump with the dishwasher and onto her next service call.
In a world of sentient machines, you can have that perfect relationship.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Feb 25, 2015 - 11:22pm PT
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Susan Bennett, the voice of Siri, but more importantly the follower of Ward Trötter
Wow! Is she single? Just think, as a couple you'd never get lost. I also like her neck adapter and her ability to find decent restaurants.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Feb 25, 2015 - 11:22pm PT
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What's with the umlauts, Ward? You a skandihoovian? I thought you were a hick.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Feb 25, 2015 - 11:25pm PT
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Outing A.I.: Beyond the Turing Test
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/23/outing-a-i-beyond-the-turing-test/
"Passing as a person, as a white or black person, or as a man or woman, for example, comes down to what others see and interpret. . . .
"The real philosophical lessons of A.I. will have less to do with humans teaching machines how to think than with machines teaching humans a fuller and truer range of what thinking can be (and for that matter, what being human can be)."
". . . . the harm is also in the loss of all that we prevent ourselves from discovering and understanding when we insist on protecting beliefs we know to be false."
". . . . .one could argue that the anthropomorphic precondition for A.I. is a 'pre-Copernican' attitude as well, however secular it may appear. The advent of robust inhuman A.I. may let us achieve another disenchantment, one that should enable a more reality-based understanding of ourselves, our situation, and a fuller and more complex understanding of what “intelligence 'is and is not.'"
The author seems to be saying that one should give up his or her conceptions of what him- or herself and reality are.
Not really a "thing?"
Or does "evolution" answer this question, too?
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Feb 25, 2015 - 11:28pm PT
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When we create sentient beings, they may well be unique by individual - one ups. When such beings can last indefinitely through part replacements and upgrades, there needn't be more than one to maintain existence.
Oh yeah, and "when I fall in love it will be forever..." literally!
Man, this is where I get off the bus.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Feb 25, 2015 - 11:37pm PT
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The author is saying that in creating sentient beings man will uncover the ordinariness of his own workings, and in the face of such a revelation be forced to lose his cherished divinity.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Feb 25, 2015 - 11:41pm PT
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What's with the umlauts, Ward? You a skandihoovian? I thought you were a hick.
I am all things. To everyone. I rediscovered my "umlauts" (as you so crudely put it) on Apricity.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/forum.php
Go slow...your comprehension is clearly limited...through no fault of your own.
BTW I wouldn't start making an enemy of the "hick" Ward Trötter ---on account you already got Paul on your ass.
Never bite off more than you can chew.
Friendly advice.
Capiche?
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Feb 25, 2015 - 11:53pm PT
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In a rapidly depopulating world - likely our future, AI mates will be in demand.
What's the salient different between programming a machine to have the propensity to fall in love with you through adaptive learning and persuading a person to fall in love with you?
The machine flies the plane to Cabo after reroofing your house.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Feb 26, 2015 - 12:12am PT
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The author is saying that in creating sentient beings man will uncover the ordinariness of his own workings, and in the face of such a revelation be forced to lose his cherished divinity.
The notion of man as nothing (the dust of evolution), the notion of man's arrogance (his aspirations to divinity), and the counter that nature is the good, corrupted by man's actions, all this is right out of the Christian playbook.
It's almost as if you see the notion of AI is a kind of salvation to man and the return or achievement of the purity that enables us (humanity) to put an end to our corruption.
It's as if AI is the Christ, the messiah that is achieved through the "piety" and effort of science for the salvation of humanity.
Sounds like Christianity confused by vocabulary.
Best get back to church.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Feb 26, 2015 - 12:31am PT
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The idea of robot as savior and protector is not new.
But angels fall at times.
And that will mark our end.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Feb 26, 2015 - 01:38am PT
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Hey Ward, if you choose to umlaut as someone else, by all means, unleash the mongrels. What colonial wouldn't slather himself in Old World Charme given the chance? Do I yearn for an "O'" to serve as a stately entrance gate to my family name? Sure I do.
But my proclivities stop at the panty line, Ward - the public will never see an "O'" slipped in front of my name, even that one time.
I'm the guy who saw the Chinese rocket booster, Ward. I see all, know all, feel all who will let me. If an umlaut fails on the forum, there is always at least one who will hear it.
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