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Phantom X
Trad climber
Honeycomb Hideout
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Newton was spot on with his space ark prediction derived from his knowledge of the bible. This much we know for certain. Cork it Ed, we like to study too.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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it is disappointing to see people who know so little pass judgements as if they were all knowing
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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it is disappointing to see people who know so little pass judgements as if they were all knowing
Damn right. Although that's not to say that Klimmer's right either, with his gods and devils stuff. The real story is much more recent...
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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It was freakin' Tintin all along!
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2016 - 02:37pm PT
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Mar 4, 2016 - 11:00am PT
He also predicted when Yeshua (Jesus) would return according to all his studies of the subject, 100s and 100s of pages of studies regarding this. His best prediction was not before 2060 AD.
if the "He" references Newton, then it is important to point out that Newton didn't believe it was possible to make such predictions from the Bible, and did not make them himself except to show the futility in such an effort.
That is another interpretation, and a more scholarly one, then the posthumous-born-again appropriation of Newton's spiritual activities.
Ed,
Take time to watch, read, learn, and listen to scholars who have researched these studies that Newton took part in for over 30 years. A scholar talks about the 100s and 100s of pages that they have where Newton was trying to determine as close as possible when Yeshua (Jesus) would return. No one works on a problem, an investigation for 30 years, returning to it time and time again if they don't think it's possible to understand and possibly know the answer to.
Newton was into Bible Code. Newton was into studying the dimensions of The Temple of G-d and what secrets that might shed. He was heavily into prophecy, having written a book on The Book of Daniel. Many of these studies fall within the realm of Judaic Kabbalism.
Newton was far more than just one of the most gifted and brilliant founding fathers of modern science we have ever known, he was also a very devout man of faith and a student of the entire Tenach, the Bible, both Old Testament and New Testament. I think that truth gives you serious problems.
You can't take G-d out of Newton's science. To him the pursuit of truth, science and G-d were one and the same, which by the way is the essence of Natural Philosophy.
NOVA: Newton's Dark Secrets
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics/newton-dark-secrets.html
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sdmhPfGo3fE
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Klimmer, Thanks for keeping this alive. I neither believe nor disbelieve but I know the truth is out there and I keep my eyes wide open.
As a professional typographer I have no faith in the document we buy in stores and call the Bible. I'd like to call for the Catholic Church to open it's vaults and give us the truth on Jesus.
We have the dead sea scrolls for the old testament. I can't read them myself but have little bit of trust in the translation since they are occasionally open to public view.
The new testament is trashed up with nonsense and marketing crap in my opinion. There would be no need for Jesus to come back if we could get a clean copy of his teachings.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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They made up the stories in the bible, so it doesn't matter if you go to the dead Sea scrolls or not, it's all the same, stories that can not be verified, but probably stories that were made up, or exaggerated, or drug induced visions.
They had no idea what was really going on before science looked into it.
Everything was a mystery for them, the sun, rain, lightening, stars, good and bad, etc..
If someone said he is the son of God, how would you know if it's the truth or not, you wouldn't have any idea that they could have just made it up or there is an actual son of god.
It was easy to explain all unknowns with a simple sentence that made total sense at the time -- God did it
Now that we can look at our world and there are no reasons to ever say "God did it".
And now we can put the bible down and use it as a work of Fiction.
There is nothing in it that has any relevance to our everyday life, we know why they said what they did, "they didn't know better 2000 years ago".
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Phantom X
Trad climber
Honeycomb Hideout
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^^^ Are you suggesting we put down the Bible and pick up the Fryble?
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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No
Pick up a science book
I'm an atheist skeptic that believes science has the answers if you want them
You want the truth?
Ask a question that that asks for the truth, not for what someone said or taught 2000 years ago.
There are better truths out there
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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I think that truth gives you serious problems.
no it doesn't, brilliant scientists, or more appropriately, scientists who have made brilliant contributions, have many much less brilliant ideas...
if anything, Newton's lasting contribution to science was the systematization of what we now call "The Scientific Method" most of the pieces he inherits from Galileo... but the introduction of formal hypothesis testing is the important ingredient that sets empirical fact on the same footing as the analytic process to create hypotheses, what we now call scientific theory.
Newton was so brilliant that his ideas regarding light seriously inhibited the entire British scientific enterprise, it took Maxwell to provide theory and Einstein to understand the implications of that theory before banishing Newton's interesting, but ultimately incorrect, views on light.
It's not saying that Newton wasn't an important figure in science, it is saying, as Newton himself would have agreed, that human authority does not exist in the face of the authority of nature.
By using Newton's methods, we have greatly expanded our scientific understanding of the universe, and the need for "the Creator" pushed farther and farther away in our explanations. While the "great ocean of knowledge" still remains out there, we have fathomed its depths, not in small part due to Newton's contributions.
But Newton's authority, on so many physical concepts, has fallen to the only authority he would have truly recognized, nature.
You can choose Newton for sainthood, and revere his every written word, but it would be a fool's errand.
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rmuir
Social climber
From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Mr. Klimmer is remarkably prone to project his strongly-held religious beliefs on to historical figures that he admires in an effort to bolster his own delusions of rigorous intellectual correctitude. 😜
Isaac, in addition to undoubtedly possessing a brilliant and inquisitive mind, could also be characterized as a crackpot in some respects. Newton, according to Klimmer, was a bible thumper like him; but Newton was also an alchemist and dabbler in other arcane occult fantasies. Similarities much?
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Later_life_of_Isaac_Newton:
"During exhumation the hair from Newton's dead body was found to contain high levels of mercury, remains of desiccated hair were later found to contain four times the lead, arsenic and antimony and fifteen times mercury than in normal range samples. Two hairs contained mercury and separately lead at levels indicating chronic poisoning (Spargo & Pounds 1979). Symptoms of mercury poisoning exhibited by Newton were apparently tremor, severe insomnia, delusions of persecution or paranoid ideas, problems with memory, mental confusion, and withdrawal or decline from personal friendships, significant in the period of time, the deterioration of his relations with his protégé Nicholas Fatio de Duillier."
But, of course, none of this has anything to do with fictitious alien arks on the Moon…
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 10, 2016 - 09:31pm PT
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Many other scientists are studying this question about Newton. They've already answered the question very well, I'm just deferring to their research regarding Newton ...
No doubt Newton was into Alchemy. He was interested in all fields of science, he was a renaissance man. Alchemy we now know is the beginnings of modern chemistry. Yes, he did experiments, inhaled, tasted, touched many substances and compounds he probably shouldn't have as we now know.
You can't separate his theology from his science. For Newton it came from the same source. As I said, there are natural laws of nature, and there are natural spiritual laws. The source of these laws are the same, HaShem Adonai Elohim -- G-d.
By the way, only ignorant people classify Newton's studies of G-d as the occult. Far from it. Occult practices come from and the tapping into dark spirits that are anti-G-d, anti-Christ. Studying the Bible, Prophecy, Bible Code, the Dimensions of The Temple, Biblical numerology etc. as it relates to the Bible are not occult practices but eschatology and Kabbalahism, a study within Judaism.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics/newton-dark-secrets.html
NOVA: "Newton's Dark Secrets"
From the transcpit ...
NARRATOR: Newton was eventually excused from becoming a minister. But he wrote more about theology and alchemy than science and math combined.
Only recently made available to the public, at the National Library in Jerusalem, these documents are now revealing that for Newton, religion and science were inseparable, two parts of the same life-long quest to understand the universe.
SIMON SCHAFFER: Newton himself wanted to design a universe in which God was absolutely present and absolutely powerful. There's an enormous irony there. In the 18th century, gangs of interpreters, most of them French, will take the God out of Newton's world. It's a very common image of what the Newtonian world was, that it was soulless, that it was mechanical, that it really wasn't theologically motivated at all.
GALE CHRISTIANSON: Now, ironically, that's very anti-Newtonian, because Newton argued that God had to be present, you couldn't read him out of the universe.
SIR ISAAC NEWTON (Dramatization): The most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful being.
NARRATOR: Newton owned more than 30 Bibles, and he examined them as rigorously as he did the natural world. Correlating Biblical passages with astronomical information, he re-dated ancient history, drawing up elaborate charts and chronologies that show civilization starting around 980 B.C.
JED BUCHWALD: I have hundreds and hundreds of pages of computations and workings and re-workings where he tries to probe this over a period of close to 30 years. Time and time again, he'll come back to it, calculating and recalculating, trying to make it work, just the way he tried to make his theories of light work.
NARRATOR: With the same fervor that he brought to science and math, Newton also combed the Bible for keys to the future.
STEPHEN SNOBELEN: What he was trying to do is determine when the end would come, when Christ would return, when all the apocalyptic events of the end times would, would come to a head.
NARRATOR: And that date is now alarmingly close: the year 2060.
JAMES FORCE: Newton is not a man who keeps his theology in a box that he brings out only on Sundays, and then a man who does his science as a working man the rest of the week. Newton sees his work as a seamless unity, and his project is to understand the truth of God.
PAMELA SMITH: Most people today think of religion and science as completely different spheres. In Newton's day, science, the investigation of the natural world, was a part of religion. It was...all questions, in some ways, ended in divine knowledge.
NARRATOR: Alchemy and religion might have continued to dominate Newton's thoughts, but in his early 40s, he received a surprise visit that would refocus him on physics. It was the astronomer Edmond Halley, now known for the comet named after him. He asked Newton an esoteric sounding question about planetary orbits.
EDMOND HALLEY (Dramatization): My question is this: What kind of curve would be described by the planets, supposing the force of the attraction towards the sun to be reciprocal to the square of their distance from it?
SIR ISAAC NEWTON (Dramatization): An ellipse.
EDMOND HALLEY (Dramatization): An ellipse? How do you know?
SIR ISAAC NEWTON (Dramatization): I've done the calculation.
By the way, to get the discussion back to what this whole thread is about ... when you study the Bible, when you study the end times discussed in The Good Book, eschatology, The Book does indeed have many things to say regarding what we would see in the skies near the end of this age. Remember it's not the end of the World, it's an end to an age, the end of a dispensation of time before another dispensation of time occurs. When something wonderful happens ...
We'll have to talk about it.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 11, 2016 - 12:27am PT
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Some of our species' most powerful gifts are the ability to imagine, conjure and fantasize. But the application of those gifts are often driven by different motivations: fear, curiosity, whimsy, obsession, bolts from the blue, etc.
The compendium of religion, myth and lore stretching back into prehistory is an unbroken line of humans attempting to understand the nature of the world around us to fill in the voids of the unknown. The generation of an almost unfathomable number of gods and lesser deities over recorded history alone is a testament to our creativity in the face of the unknown. Prior to the development of science, myth / religion was how we answered the 'hard' questions of our existence and explained some of the fearful aspects of living and dying.
Science has dramatically shifted the balance of how we arrive at and hold answers when we ponder something unknown. It provided us with a shared process for achieving and holding common knowledge of nature which transcends generational, geographic, language and tribal barriers - it's not about adherence to the dueling mythologies of our ancestors. And I get that the the transition from myth to science has proceeded with a pace some societies can't absorb and that many have a hard time integrating it with cultural relationships, norms and behaviors rooted in myth, but at this point the demarc between fact and fiction is a sharp one compared to that of even a hundred years ago.
Somewhat ironic in all this is how the science and physics in the form of media and the internet are being used to not only cling to, but also resurrect and elevate myth; this thread is a good example of that. But that carries with it certain risks relative to the education and beliefs of our citizenry. For example, the cable 'science' and 'history' channels over the past decade have been making hay wrapping myth in faux trappings of science and endlessly sewing doubt about the veracity of science or giving the impression science has no answer for this or that fabricated and / or dramaticized 'mystery'. I personally consider it highly ill-advised and corrosive in terms of maintaining as educated a populace as possible.
In the end, 'of high interest' often simply means indulging in or pandering to doubt, fear and myth in ways I find not only counterproductive, but a case of once understandable ancestral instincts now representing a kind of addictive pathology I hope our species can wean ourselves of.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Mar 11, 2016 - 03:23am PT
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There has to be a gnome sighting every once in a while even given the foggy facts
it is disappointing to see people who know so little,
pass judgements as if they were all knowing free thinkers thinking freely
Beyond convention or compelled by anything to stay with in an artificial norm...
Hmmm?
Beyond the norms of conventional thinking, not compelled to stay within any artificially
Constructed frame of thought.....
Not sure which or if there is any difference
Time to get the kids on the bus, I often panic as the yellow doors swing shut, is this the day
That the world will end? Is young love creeping up on one of my charges , if so what then?
It won't matter when
And the smartest guy I have ever known is playin' out nuclear energy vs all life scenarios
Playing it out
Underground,
but he is well attended. Gets grounding advise, from earth worn good, do good 'ers
how they show up here is the real mystery....
( he is way to grand to admit) or why the stoic son of a Miss Sardine, has not,
He don't posit what the hell his one LSD trip made him think?
I was there and it did seem that the world was ending in a bright & dark night sky,
flashes of darkness blinding out our sight of the moon light?...
The world went on
it goes on
& no reason to think
if that is what Mind do or is for,
no reason to experience things like
Non-existence any more.
It will be what it will be....
Or not...
This translates beautifully into French, Latin ? Not sure ? I'll try and get back to you
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Mar 11, 2016 - 11:57am PT
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That's Milou, not Rintintin, DMT.
Don't listen to Randisi. He's just showing off. Hoping we'll think he's all cultured n' sh#t cuz he read Hergé in the original French.
Us dirtbag types read it in English, and know the dog as Snowy.
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Winemaker
Sport climber
Yakima, WA
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Mar 11, 2016 - 12:30pm PT
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Ah...Tintin. My daughter and I started reading those when she was just a little squirt and ended up with the whole set. Good stuff.
'Tintin in the Land of the Soviets' (1930) and 'Tintin in the Congo' (1931) were the first two books and are worth a read, especially the Congo book. Herge was of course Belgian and it shows.
And yes, Snowy. And of course Captain Haddock, who would fit in here real good.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Mar 11, 2016 - 12:41pm PT
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My daughter and I started reading those when she was just a little squirt and ended up with the whole set.
Ditto for me and my sons (we named our two cats Haddock and Bianca). The boys are long gone from the nest, but I've still got the full set of Tintin books, and still read them once in a while. I truly think Hergé belongs in any conversation about great 20th Century literature.
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brotherbbock
climber
Alta Loma, CA
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Mar 11, 2016 - 02:01pm PT
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brotherbbock
climber
Alta Loma, CA
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Mar 11, 2016 - 02:03pm PT
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rmuir
Social climber
From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Mar 11, 2016 - 02:06pm PT
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By the way, only ignorant people classify Newton's studies of G-d as the occult. Far from it. Occult practices come from and the tapping into dark spirits that are anti-G-d, anti-Christ.
Apparently, you don't know—or choose instead to misinterpret—the meaning of occult, forgetting that its origin comes from the Latin word occultus "clandestine, hidden, or secret". And given that Newton was an antitrinitarian, and certainly not an orthodox Anglican, he was dabbling in a brand of poppycock we might consider heretical. Undoubtedly, his brand of alchemy was banned outright in England. Hence, none of his most weird claptrap was published in his lifetime. For this reason alone, his massive amount of largely hidden work is very definition of occult!
http://www.enlighteningscience.sussex.ac.uk/learning_objects/student/science_and_religion/isaac_newton_on_religion
In the last three decades of his life [Newton] spent vast amounts of time attempting to give a true chronology of events preceding Christ, much of which depended on his redating of the voyage of the Argonauts to 936BCE. Oh yeah, let's redefine biblical mythology by way of redefining Greek mythology!
Ignorant, indeed!
But go ahead and ignore the overwhelming unreality of your massive ark on the Moon… By justifying biblical mythology using wacko Twentieth century mythology.
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