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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Oct 28, 2011 - 10:19am PT
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I appreciate that you stopped with the pony porn. Thank you.
Amen!!!!!!!!1111
That shít was (is) creepy.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Oct 28, 2011 - 11:44am PT
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+1 on creepy ponies
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Oct 28, 2011 - 11:53am PT
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what Wade said.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Oct 28, 2011 - 01:27pm PT
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All I (and others) ever claimed was that Richard was a liar about the hole count since day one.
I keep getting laughs out of that one!
Bring back the ponies!!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 28, 2011 - 03:09pm PT
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The Canada Post dogsled finally arrived with my copy of R&I yesterday. Ammon and Kait's article, which includes photos and quotes from Richard and Mark, and quite a lot about the history of the route, is well worth reading.
The facts from the article seem pretty clear. Wings of Steel:
 Is a hard and committing climb, whether by the standards of 1982 or 2011. Possibly modern equipment and techniques ease things a bit.
Is a one of a kind climb, in that it relies mainly on hooking. Hooking on something that's less than vertical, and relatively unfeatured. It's not to everyone's taste.
Follows a 'natural' line, insofar as there is one. (It's unclear if anything else on the 'slab' offers a more natural or alternative line.)
Has about 30 unaccounted for bathook holes - that is, not listed in Richard and Mark's book. Some are in the upper half, which had no recorded attempt or repeat prior to Ammon and Kait. The holes were necessary for progress, given the features of the rock where they're located.
Has 188 drilled placements altogether, including 48 for belays. Some may have been added in the first half during attempted repeats.
Has an average of 14.5 drilled placements/pitch in 13 pitches, or excluding belay anchors just under 11. The 30 unattributed holes work out to just over two/pitch, although they're not uniformly spaced out.
One would have to work out the hole count/metre to allow something of a comparison with other routes. Although it would still be apples and oranges - the 'slab' is quite unfeatured in comparison with many routes on the SE face.
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chez
Social climber
chicago ill
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Oct 28, 2011 - 03:16pm PT
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Reading that put me to sleep, route sounds totally uninteresting.
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matty
Trad climber
under the sea
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Oct 28, 2011 - 03:35pm PT
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I though that Grossman said he was originally going to inspect the route to look for evidence of enhanced hook placements, but haven't really heard much about them. Did the article say anything about this? Were there enhanced natural hook placements, or just drilled bat hooks/rivets between hook placements?
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Oct 28, 2011 - 03:56pm PT
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That's a really good question, in light of the hundreds of posts related to enhancements.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 28, 2011 - 05:18pm PT
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Yeah Werner, when will they all go to bed? I'll help you tuck them in.
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Hummerchine
Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
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Oct 30, 2011 - 05:14pm PT
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There have been references to the ideal of "leave no trace", even to the point of not using chalk. Even though I use (and love) chalk, I can respect anyone for not using it to "leave no trace".
It just seems like anyone this pure would not then be cool with doing first ascents on El Cap, which necessitate MANY permanent "traces" far worse than some spots of chalk...
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 25, 2011 - 12:31am PT
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Floyd- Would you care to say the same about me...or yourself for that matter? If you actually looked at the topo you would see that several pitches of the unlucky 13 are moderate and well within Mimi's ability, if that even matters, which it does not.
I have been the most consistent critic of these guys ever since they came on this forum demanding respect and an apology from me which they clearly never deserved. Bathook holes are not the least bit ambiguous despite all the obfuscation and weaseling.
Remember, these two started out from absurd position that NONE of their meticulously documented 154 hook placements were enhanced using a chisel or drill so it is not a question of extent or proportion just one of simple honest and forthright reporting of their methods and performance on this route. That's it and that's that...
You guys simply can't handle a woman with a strong voice or opinion. Pretty damn funny from our perspective.
Stop chasing your tails gents and let this episode dwindle off into the obscurity it has always deserved.
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laughingman
Mountain climber
Seattle WA
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Nov 25, 2011 - 01:21am PT
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Everyone needs to chill out.
Lets have a civil conversation instead of having a pissing contest about the climbing ethics on Wings of steel.
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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Nov 25, 2011 - 02:25am PT
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Steve sure talks a bunch sh#t for not climbing the route.
Go climb it before you say another thing.
P.S. Where is the movie and the money from kick start?????
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 25, 2011 - 03:04am PT
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At ease. Smoke 'em if you got 'em. Steve, we missed you at dinner tonight.
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LAP
Boulder climber
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Nov 25, 2011 - 09:34am PT
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Steve Schneider
Pete Chesco
Bill Russell
The only question left is, who used a can of stew?
Lucinda
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Nov 25, 2011 - 12:04pm PT
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Those who can...do. Those who can't(self included)...talk.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Nov 28, 2011 - 04:56pm PT
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Did someone mention "shit talkin"?
Can we take up a collection and get Steve and Mimi Grossman tickets? Only $10 each. BTW, the formatting of the text did not come though, click the link for the BOLD ALL CAPS here and there version. I would advise Ammon and Kait to not click it, cause there might be sh#t all over ropes: round 2.
Mark Smith Slideshow
Mon, December 12, 2011 7:00PM to 9:30PM (Pacific)
[Download to Calendar]
Hosted by Mountain Leadership Institute
http://mountainleadershipinstitute.givezooks.com/events/mark-smith-slideshow?mid=53
EVENT DETAILS
Big wall climber, Mark Smith, presents a slideshow of his route, Wings of Steel, the most controversial climb on El Cap. Journey back to 1982 and experience sabotage, starvation and slander as they put up the hardest aid route on El Cap. The climb, trashed by locals as being a "bolt ladder" ultimately proved to be harder then their critics tough language and egos. Countless attempts by some of the best aid climbers in the world ultimately vindicated Smith and his climbing partner, Richard Jensen. It wasn't until 2011 that Ammon McNeely and his partner, Kait Barbor spent 13 frightful days on Wings of Steel and finally put up the second ascent (see the current issue of Rock and Ice Magazine for their harrowing account.)
Come hear Mark Smith tell the epic story of storms, starvation and sabotage on his first ascent of the most controversial climb on El Capitan.
This event supports the scholarship fund of Mountain Leadership Institute.
At least it looks like it goes to a good cause.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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Nov 28, 2011 - 06:13pm PT
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GOD ALERT!
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Floyd Hayes
Trad climber
Hidden Valley Lake, CA
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Nov 28, 2011 - 06:21pm PT
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Steve, with due respect to all of your accomplishments, I've read both sides of the story and I don't think your and Mimi's smear campaign is very convincing.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 28, 2011 - 06:23pm PT
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What's the Mountain Leadership Institute?
It would be useful if Ammon and Kate were also there, and made a presentation on what they saw in 2011 in terms of holes and 'enhancements'. Or perhaps someone can videotape the presentation, and post it somewhere like YouTube.
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