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Prod

Trad climber
Oct 23, 2011 - 05:32pm PT
I always wonder about the appeal of aid climbing to so many people.

Hi Jim,

For me the appeal comes in 3 forms.

1. The mechanics and problem solving.
2. Big wall camping.
3. Getting to the top.

Prod.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 23, 2011 - 06:06pm PT
Nicely stated Prod, and Jim, I don't recall calling aid climbing wierd- is that what you think?
Matt

Trad climber
primordial soup
Oct 23, 2011 - 11:42pm PT
Jim Beyer is a vandal who while climbing Martyr's Brigade destroyed bolts and rivets on an existing route on El Capitan - WOEML. These chopped anchors have yet to be repaired, and the WOEML route is currently unclimbable.

Accordingly, Martyr's Brigade is a botch job, and I have no respect for Beyer nor his climbing accomplishments. He should go repair what he wrecked.




quite honestly i just think it's incredibly bizarre that you'd see fit to climb up on a high horse and start talking about not respecting another person, considering what lots of people have witnessed you say and do, and i think you know exactly what sort of stuff i am talking about.

who really cares about some holes in some rocks as compare to sh#t like that?
seriously.


edit
question:
if beyer decided to become a born again christian, would he then need to take some responsibility for these misdeeds he's supposedly enacted and go fix the stuff, or would he simply be all set (and worthy of your "respect"), having accepted the lord as his savior?

just curious.
(seriously)
Da_Dweeb

climber
Oct 23, 2011 - 11:45pm PT
Ahhh, and homeostasis in this thread has at last found another venue through which to maintain itself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEbE3fGfF-o

Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Oct 24, 2011 - 02:23am PT
I reiterate...what's the deal with the ponies?111!!!666
Da_Dweeb

climber
Oct 24, 2011 - 03:05am PT
I would hazard a guess that Da Dweeb is The Obfuscation that is a proxy to the first ascent dudes not being able to explain unexplained Bathooks.
Humans being earnest are better entertainment than any comedian could imagine.

At least my obfuscation is laughable.


In all seriousness Jim, I'm not advocating that anyone should believe one way or the other regarding the bathooks. It's pretty much a given that folk will form their own opinion on the matter based on what they already think about the climb and the climbers. However if you want to, you could PM Madbolter1 to get his take on it.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Oct 24, 2011 - 03:08am PT
wtf...I've been guilty of aid climbing...but...
ponies?

dweeb are you evading the question?
Da_Dweeb

climber
Oct 24, 2011 - 03:14am PT
What, regarding the ponies?

Well, what do you want to know?
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Oct 24, 2011 - 03:25am PT
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1363644/3rd-ascent-of-the-WOEML-who-did-it

Until 2002, WEML was a viable climb. It got climbed once a year or every other year.

In the late 80s/early 90s Steve Gerberding redrilled the original section that Robbins chopped. He told me he used 1/4" buttonheads, drilling right next to the chopped bolts(i've only done New Dawn so haven't seen em).

In 96ish Chris McNamara and Brian Paulson replaced most of the anchor bolts, as long as you link according to the Supertopo.

In 2002 Jim Beyer put up Martyr's Brigade, which crosses or touches WEML, ND, Mescalito,Space. Jim reported in Alpinist that he, "I drilled a lot of bolts, but chopped about an equal number on surrounding routes."

In 2004 Hans Florine and Brian McCray tried for the first one day ascent of WEML and were slowed considerably by several chopped bolts. Hans reported that they free-soloed the first pitch, drilled a couple rivets over the climb, and avoided other blank spots with penjiing onto nearby routes.

Later in 2004, Brian McCray and Ammon McNeely paired up for the first one day ascent. I don't believe they drilled any bolts but resorted to the same circuitous climbing tactics to avoid broken bolts.

I don't believe anyone has climbed the route since 2004. I don't believe the bolts on the first pitch have been replaced.

BlackSpider

Ice climber
Oct 24, 2011 - 08:59am PT
Doesn't Martyr's Brigade also include some really contrived difficulty, like "hook" moves involving an ice tool attached to a cheat stick or something like that?
Transmission

climber
Dallas, TX
Oct 24, 2011 - 04:24pm PT
I would hazard a guess that Da Dweeb is The Obfuscation that is a proxy to the first ascent dudes not being able to explain unexplained Bathooks.

It only matters because it is a point of faith that the unfaithful are supposed to believe.

Aid climbing is like being involved with Catechism into adulthood sometimes. There is some liberation but lots of loathing for just doing what it takes to get home.

Humans being earnest are better entertainment than any comedian could imagine.

You've unwittingly described yourself, which is both amusing and not really surprising.

Further, your overwhelming faith in certain things is amazing. I applaud your ultimately futile efforts.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Oct 24, 2011 - 04:28pm PT
I'm just too lazy..er..pressed for time to read back through this dreck to excavate the reason you are posting cute little girl pony images...


Oxymoron

Big Wall climber
total Disarray
Oct 24, 2011 - 04:37pm PT
Chop Martyr's Brigade, then more ponies!
Da_Dweeb

climber
Oct 24, 2011 - 04:37pm PT
It's another form of communication, I suppose. Sometimes point/counterpoint argument is called for. Sometimes rational analysis. Sometimes reflective listening.

Sometimes ponies.

I like the butterfly, by the way.

Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Oct 24, 2011 - 04:41pm PT
did PTPP sh#t on Matt's ropes?
Da_Dweeb

climber
Oct 25, 2011 - 10:56pm PT
Just for you, Oxymoron:

Da_Dweeb

climber
Oct 25, 2011 - 11:09pm PT
HAH! Well played, Jim.
Oxymoron

Big Wall climber
total Disarray
Oct 25, 2011 - 11:12pm PT
Thank you, Da Dweeb. Deliciously fun and funny.

graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Oct 26, 2011 - 12:08am PT
Doesn't Martyr's Brigade also include some really contrived difficulty, like "hook" moves involving an ice tool attached to a cheat stick or something like that?


http://www.alpinist.com/doc/ALP01/climbing-note-beyer

Martyr's Brigade is probably the hardest and most dangerous big-wall route on El Capitan

The seventeen-foot stickhook move on pitch 24 bypasses a super-thin flake, but has real bloodbath potential. The "dry tool" move on pitch 11 is unique. By topstepping a big hook, I was able to reach past a twenty-foot blank wall and "dry tool" (my ice axe taped to my twenty-two-foot stickclip) an out-of-sight block. As I jugged my 5.5-mil spectra cord up to the axe I was afraid that it would come off and impale me. When I reached the block I realized it was detached and resting on a narrow down-sloping ledge. I should have been more gripped.

. I drilled a lot of bolts, but chopped about an equal number on surrounding routes. Creating hard pitches, destroying pathetic bolt ladders (Early Morning Light)—it seemed to balance out in the end.

Pretty funny to hear Jim Beyer cheating his way up with a big 22 foot cheat stick (not counting the attached ice tool) and an even bigger ego while calling bolt ladders pathetic.
Transmission

climber
Dallas, TX
Oct 26, 2011 - 02:27am PT
If it wasn't okay for the WoS crew, it shouldn't be okay to do to anyone else, no matter how justified you may feel in doing so. I'm sure that the folks that have harassed the WoS FA team felt justified in their actions (and still do, obviously), but that doesn't make it any less of an incorrect course of action.
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