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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Oct 18, 2011 - 10:15pm PT
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Greetings, Jfailing.
Apparently we've got a thread here on Supertopo that gives some good information and a topo on Bushido.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=673612
Ed Hartouni posted this reference:
Half Dome. In October Dale Bard and I did a new route on the northwest face of Half Dome. The route is on the right side of the face. The first 900 feet followed a huge arch with very awkward, strenuous, loose, expanding aid climbing. The upper part required many holes (105 total). Dale, who has done all the routes on Half Dome’s northwest face, said this route was certainly the most difficult. The climb required eight days of continuous climbing, with four pitches fixed. The route is extremely steep, strenuous, and dangerous, with no retreat possible.
NCCS VI, F10, A4+.
JAMES D. BRIDWELL
So clearly, we're looking at what Bridwell himself considered a very difficult and dangerous line. Given that, if Ammon meant the quote the way Bridwell meant the quote, I believe it's much more likely he's referring to the difficulty and innately technically and psychologically demanding nature of the climb.
Mind you, I'm also not trying to draw a comparison between Bushido and Wings of Steel here, in fact I believe this is a key point. WoS was a climb of the great slab on El Cap, whereas Bushido was a climb on an overhanging wall of HD. I do not think a valid comparison between the "forced"ness or naturalness of the line can necessarily be quantified given the inherent differences between the two climbs.
Regardless, Bridwell's quote, much like Ammon's use of it, seems to me to reference the overarching theme of demand and difficulty (as presented in Bridwell's commentary on Bushido, likewise in Ammon's article about WoS), as opposed to being a jab at the route or the style in which it was put up.
What do you think?
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Captain...or Skully
climber
Where are you bound?
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Oct 19, 2011 - 03:53pm PT
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treez, check your Email.
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Oct 19, 2011 - 04:29pm PT
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Lovegasoline, if you feel it would promote this thread's natural tendency toward self-actualization, we could go back to posting poop jokes.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 19, 2011 - 07:49pm PT
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Norton nuked his thread....just wondering.
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Oct 19, 2011 - 08:11pm PT
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Is this what all that was?
Much like anything in life, it's pretty much whatever you decide to make it out to be.
I'm enjoying your posts in the Occupy thread, by the way.
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Gal
Trad climber
a semi lucid consciousness
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Oct 19, 2011 - 08:20pm PT
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Norton nuked his thread....just wondering. ...I was thinking something along those lines too ;-)
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Oct 21, 2011 - 11:51pm PT
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Just to show that Nick Danger never lies!
Plus it wasn't the 3rd, more like 5th!
Let the pithy, make that snooty comments resume, here, where they belong.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Oct 21, 2011 - 11:52pm PT
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you guys are crazy.
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Oct 22, 2011 - 06:15am PT
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I like your style, Nick.
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Oct 22, 2011 - 01:50pm PT
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Content-wise? A 30 year old climb - its climbers were harassed and their characters assassinated due to misconceptions about them and about their climb, with slander continuing to be perpetuated for 30 years, culminating in a 2nd ascent that demonstrated those statements inaccurate.
Process-wise? A forum-thread for the various (and often notable) members of the rock climbing community to showcase their true and ugly characters.
Also, ponies.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Oct 22, 2011 - 02:10pm PT
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Didn't Mark and Richard go on to do the hardest aid climb in the world at that time after they put up Wings of Steel? I can't remember the name of the climb.
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mongrel
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Oct 23, 2011 - 12:27am PT
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Uh, Dweeb, I'm not so sure it's correct to say that the SA "demonstrated those [which?] statements inaccurate." The article in R&I, an excellent one by the way, definitely states that they encountered numerous drilled hook placements in locations not known to have been attained by anyone between the first and second ascents, of which McNeely says "At this point we were convinced that the dimples and bathooks had come from the first ascent." That seems to be contrary to what the FA party has said. And he provides hole totals: 30 more drilled hook placements than stated by the FA party.
That said, he nevertheless gives the benefit of doubt to the FA party, preferring just to consider the unclaimed 30 drilled placements as an unresolved mystery. I lean that way too, because everything I've read from the FA party has had a real ring of truth to it. But it's not correct to say that the observations from the SA demonstrated that statements about drilled placements were inaccurate.
The SA reported 140 drilled placements (plus anchors), which comes to somewhere around 700 feet of progress (half or more than half of the whole climb??) being made by drilling, more than would be my personal taste (though not meant to be a criticism of either party - I'm not in that game). But the rest sounds pretty damn technically difficult, and some of it really good quality.
It sounds like a pretty impressive achievement for anyone who has made it very far up the climb, especially the two successful parties. Much thanks to Jensen for the excellent post a few pages back about the experience of the climb. Sounds like it was an incredible mix of challenge, stress, physical effort, and beauty of the environment.
The most important question now is, have Honnold and Caldwell seen the photos? Looks like a mighty fine piece of rock with a lot of climbing space and at least a few features. Those guys don't seem to need too many.
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Oct 23, 2011 - 12:45am PT
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Have to head to work so I'll keep this short, but you have a fair point, Mongrel. I figured it best to keep to a one or two line response for that post, and it's true I could have been more specific about the statements I was referring to.
I can see how you're talking more about statements involving the FA team's reported number of drilled holes not matching the SA total, largely due to the WTF bat hook placements. I'm not sure what to say about that one, I'm of the opinion that the article says everything there is to say on the matter already. But I do see what you're saying regarding that.
The statements I'm referring to are the various historical comments - such as you see at the start of this thread and made at the beginning of the controversy - regarding Wings of Steel being a drilled pile, a real mess, and generally having no redeeming value, and Mark and Richard being made out to be the enemies of rock climbing ethics. These have over time been the most damaging and enduring statements, and any way you slice it they're pretty well laid to rest at this point. People can have their own opinions positive or negative on the climb, but Mark and Richard are no longer seen as villains by the community at large. At the end of the day, that's where I've wanted to see all of this get to, and I know the same is true of the FA team.
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Transmission
climber
Dallas, TX
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Oct 23, 2011 - 01:02am PT
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"That said, he nevertheless gives the benefit of doubt to the FA party, preferring just to consider the unclaimed 30 drilled placements as an unresolved mystery. "
I have to wonder if other parties that attempted ascents did those.
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wildone
climber
Troy, MT
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Oct 23, 2011 - 02:39am PT
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Wow, just read the Intifada article and it confirms everything that I've ever heard about Beyer as a person, from people who know him. Btw, well written article!
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Oct 23, 2011 - 10:15am PT
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I agree, I think Jim Beyer deserves big kudos for doing solo what most other people will not even attempt as a team. He doesn't self promote his routes, and simply because he doesn't make topos or keep track of what he does pitch by pitch doesn't mean he is trying to decieve anyone. Sounds like the guy climbs for the sake and love of climbing. That I can appreciate!
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Oct 23, 2011 - 01:40pm PT
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Studly and Jake,
Jim Beyer is a vandal who while climbing Martyr's Brigade destroyed bolts and rivets on an existing route on El Capitan - WOEML. These chopped anchors have yet to be repaired, and the WOEML route is currently unclimbable.
Accordingly, Martyr's Brigade is a botch job, and I have no respect for Beyer nor his climbing accomplishments. He should go repair what he wrecked.
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