Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
|
|
|
Jul 29, 2016 - 11:44am PT
|
1982 Peter Hayes, Scruf?
|
|
Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Jul 29, 2016 - 04:08pm PT
|
Nope, that's "Vicious", 5.12. It's on the back wall between Beethoven and A-frame.
|
|
paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
|
|
|
Jul 29, 2016 - 05:36pm PT
|
If that's 5.12 what's A frame rated now? If I remember back in the day it was 5.8.
|
|
FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
|
|
|
Jul 29, 2016 - 05:39pm PT
|
A big block fell out of A Frame a few years back 5.7
it was rated 5.9 in the Hellweg & Fisher Guide 1982
|
|
paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
|
|
|
Jul 29, 2016 - 05:42pm PT
|
Thanks... just curious. Did notice on my last visit the remarkable changes at ST. Which is, all in all, probably a good thing. What a great place it remains!
|
|
FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
|
|
|
Jul 29, 2016 - 05:45pm PT
|
Yep it is
|
|
Sam E
Boulder climber
Malibu
|
|
|
Jul 29, 2016 - 06:15pm PT
|
Great to see everyone Thursday!
|
|
FRUMY
Trad climber
Bishop,CA
|
|
|
Aug 12, 2016 - 09:28am PT
|
|
|
pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 13, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
|
Caption for this photo reads:
Sunshine Ranch (looking north from the approximate intersection of White Oak Ave and Chatsworth St in early 1920’s. It was planted with 1,200 acres of citrus (oranges, lemons, and grapefruit), apricots, walnuts, beans, and alfalfa.
Granada Hills Chamber of Commerce
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Aug 13, 2016 - 10:32pm PT
|
It strikes me that now might represent a real opportunity for climbing development in LA, such as Stoney.
The decision to add climbing to the Olympics now makes the availability of training sites very desirable for LA, particularly since LA is making a bid for the 2014 games.
How could they improve Stoney (water? toilets?)
What other areas could be made available that currently are not?
|
|
IanR
Sport climber
VAN NUYS
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2016 - 03:37pm PT
|
Hi guys, I bolted this. I realize this is a big point of contention. I would first like say that I did quite a lot of research on the glue-ins and have a background in construction. The holes were meticulously cleaned, brushed, and blown out. I used Quickrete high strength two part anchoring epoxy, and stainless steel Wave bolts. I also color matched the rock as best I could. This is by far the best way to sustainable bolt this quality of sandstone, and unlike expansion bolts, this type of bolt doesn't weaken the surrounding rock structure and should last decades. Now to the question of if they should stay. I want to say I have great respect for the history of Stoney Point. I have lived in the Valley my entire life and the Chatsworth Hills and Stoney have been my stomping grounds. I meant no disrespect to by doing this, In fact the opposite. I am trying to add to the enjoyment to this place we all love. I hope we can have a discussion about this. Thanks
|
|
SpaGetty
Trad climber
SFV, California
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2016 - 05:27pm PT
|
I led "Machine Gun" on Ian's bolts. In the time It usually takes to set up top rope. It was led, followed, cleaned and moving on. Stoked, gave me a little more time to climb. I've long hoped someone would take modern bolting techniques and apply them to some routes in my backyard. Bummed its been met with so much negative feedback. I hope ya'll reach out to Ian and resolve the issue properly.
|
|
BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2016 - 05:59pm PT
|
does that quickcrete come in a bag or a tube?
|
|
IanR
Sport climber
VAN NUYS
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2016 - 07:37pm PT
|
It comes in a caulk tube with a mixing nozzle.
|
|
pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 21, 2016 - 08:37pm PT
|
KEEP SPORT ROUTES OFF
No sport routes at Stoney point Allowed!
Traditional boulder top rope maybe a feature lead but thats it.
|
|
Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2016 - 08:45pm PT
|
Though I'm an LA native, I'm not as much of a local as others on this site. Having said that, I think you're missing the issue correctly. The issue is bolting, not which types of bolts to use. This seems REALLY obvious, to me at least. The fact that you thought this required consideration of which bolts to use, rather than whether to place them at all, suggests to me that this point was missed completely. If bolting was an acceptable practice, you'd see more bolts. The fact that Stoney has been climbed at pretty regularly for the past 70 yrs., and that the vast majority of the bolts have been at the tops of routes (if at all), not on them, seems a pretty clear indication that bolted lead routes are not consistent with local ethics. The whole 'convenience' argument is irrelevant. This isn't a convenience issue, it's an ethics issue.
|
|
Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2016 - 08:48pm PT
|
Chop that sh#t. There is no further discussion. Buh-bye.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2016 - 09:57pm PT
|
Ian, you should look to the Gritstone in Britain for an example. Watch the video "Hard Grit." You will see quickly why people are upset.
The Brits understand that the Grit is a precious but limited resource. If climbers of future generations are going to be able to imagine and accomplish new challenges bolting must be forbidden. The ethic on the gritstone’s short but beautiful climbs is that if you don’t want to lead the route the way it is, then top-rope it. Period. This strict standard has led to an amazing progression of climbing accomplishments there spanning generations of climbers.
Bolting the route which you did doesn’t change a lot at Stoney by itself. Climbing something at that grade is not exactly something to write home about anyway. But what it does, what you have done, is to open a door. And that door is getting slammed hard in your face by climbers who understand the future better than you.
Of course advocates of bolting at Stoney will argue that lots of climbs are bolted at many areas. But the fact is that Stoney is a bouldering area. If routes there start getting bolted up then why not Yabo Arête. I mean jeez, a person could get hurt on that one. The Owens River Gorge, on the other hand, is a good example of a real sport climbing area. You won’t see very many climbers bouldering those routes, especially now that JB is gone.
I’ll give you props for posting up, and taking a position. I hope you’ll look into what’s happened there in Britain, realize your mistake, and give a hand to the removing of the bolts. That’s the road to respect from the climbing community at Stoney.
|
|
IanR
Sport climber
VAN NUYS
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2016 - 11:23pm PT
|
Yes, the first part of the post dealt with the type of bolts I used, however I acknowledged that the issue of "IF" is what I wanted to have a conversation about. I didn't miss the issue, I got the trivial part out of the way. Gritstone is a completely unrelated topic.
My argument is that most all climbs at Stoney only exist because someone hammered a piton in a hairline crack which is now a hand or foothold. The entire place was used as a pin cushion for legends to find new techniques and hone their skills. The stone is too soft to lead with gear. The point is that most climbs here were FA on lead.
You are correct their are bolts all over the tops of these climbs. So what makes some bolts ok and others not. There is an aid line with about 14 bolts that nobody seems to care about. There are a few climbs that have rusted old bolts that nobody climbs purely for safety reasons.
I have asked numerous people their opinions and I can honestly say everyone was genuinely excited and agrees with me. It is my opinion that its the minority that would call foul for local ethics. One of the people threatening to chop the bolts said bolt away across the street just not here. Why would it be ok to bolt across the street on pristine sandstone but not somewhere with a pre existing pin scars and bolted lines.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!