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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Climategate Emails Force Al Gore to Cancel Talk at Copenhagen !
Al Gore's scheduled December 16th 2009 speech with
the auspicious title "Climate Conclusion" has been canceled
amid the scandal of Climategate.
About 3,000 Danes had tickets for the Berlinske Media event that was announced in August...
.. **Penn State's Michael Mann was placed under investigation
**
(hockey stick graph guy)
(more)
http://www.lewrockwell.com/spl/gore-cancels.html
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dirtbag
climber
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Citing Lew Rockwell: that's funny.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Serious consequences to millions might not be so far off as you might imagine
from
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/green/story/799994.html
"KAROLA PASS, Tibet—The glaciers of the Himalayas store more ice than anywhere on Earth except for the polar regions and Alaska, and the steady flow of water from their melting icepacks fills seven of the mightiest rivers of Asia.
Now, due to global warming and related changes in the monsoons and trade winds, the glaciers are retreating at a startling rate, and scientists say the ancient icepacks could nearly disappear within one or two generations.
Curiously, there's little sense of crisis in some of the mountainous areas. Indeed, global warming is making the lives of some high-altitude dwellers a little less severe.
Here at the foot of the towering Nojin Gangsang mountain, an ice-covered 23,700-foot peak, herders notice the retreat of the glaciers but say they feel grateful for the milder winters and increasing vegetation on mountain slopes in summers.
But for people living in the watershed of the Himalayas and other nearby mountain ranges along the Tibetan Plateau, glacial melt could have catastrophic consequences.
Himalayan glaciers release water steadily throughout the year, most critically during the hot, dry, sunny periods when water is most needed. Once they vanish, major lifeline rivers such as the Ganges and Indus could become more seasonal, and large tributaries may dry up completely during non-monsoon periods.
"The presence of glaciers is very vital to the Himalayan river systems," said Anil Kulkarni of the Indian Space Research Organization, who has used satellite data to measure the glacial retreat. "It is really alarming. We have to be really concerned."
The pace of glacial retreat around the Himalayas varies. Smaller glaciers fragment and melt faster than bigger ones, and those facing south are also receding more quickly.
In a stark forecast, the United Nations body studying global warming, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, warned in early May that the glaciers in the world's highest mountain range could vanish within three decades.
"Glaciers in the Himalayas are receding faster than in any other part of the world and, if the present rate continues, the likelihood of them disappearing by the year 2035 and perhaps sooner is very high if the Earth keeps getting warmer at the current rate," the report said. The total area of glaciers in the Himalayas likely will shrink from 193,051 square miles to 38,600 square miles by that year, the report said.
While some scientists dispute the assessments of the U.N. body and the rate of retreat is highly variable, experts on glaciers in China, India and Nepal already see the short-term impact of glacial melting....."
"...In India, a team led by Kulkarni recently completed a study of satellite images that determined some glaciated areas had retreated 21 percent from 1962 to 2004. It described potentially catastrophic effects on cities and towns relying on fresh water from melting ice for irrigation, drinking and hydroelectric power.
Glacial runoff in the Himalayas is the largest source of freshwater for northern India, and provides more than half the water to its most important river, the Ganges.
Glacial runoff also is the source of the headwaters for the Indus River in Pakistan, the Brahmaputra that flows through Bangladesh, the Mekong that descends through Southeast Asia, the Irrawaddy in Burma, and the Yellow and Yangtze rivers of China.
Scientists say 1.3 billion people reside in areas affected by glacial retreat, either in flood-prone areas or in locales that rely on year-round supplies of fresh water from glaciers rather than from the monsoon rainfall of only three or four months...."
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pc
climber
East of Seattle
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Just darting in to the campfire to see if anything's cooking. I just see Skipt doing the classic, go after the individual when all else fails.
Paraphrase...'Ed Dude, yer pretty smart. But are you really certified to be that smart?'
;) Carry on. BTW ymmm this rumandeggnog is gud.
pc
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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the men behind the AGW curtain has been exposed.
Consider the sociology of science, the push and pull of interests, incentives, appetites and passions.
Governments' attempts to manipulate Earth's temperature now comprise one of the world's largest industries. Tens of billions of dollars are being dispensed, as by the U.S. Energy Department, which has suddenly become, in effect, a huge venture capital operation, speculating in green technologies.
Political, commercial, academic and journalistic prestige and advancement can be contingent on not disrupting the (postulated) consensus that is propelling the gigantic and fabulously lucrative industry of combating global warming.
(from)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/04/AR2009120403073.html
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WBraun
climber
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Karl
Isn't that what Conrad is researching? Glacial receding.
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pc
climber
East of Seattle
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Clarification accepted Skipt.
Funny thing is I've been debating this topic with a couple relatives lately. They're a strange and unique pair of extremely well educated conservative Berkeley residents. The debate is ongoing in the loopy nature of these kinds of mysteriously personal foundation type issues. I'm fairly convinced though that they agree with me and most of the scientists out there (though they argue otherwise) that we're in deep man made do do but...Want "man" to take this path so there'll be a gigantic "Darwin event", and the population of the earth will decline massively, solving this and many other problems.
But this might be the rumandeggnog talking...
pc
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Don't know Werner
But it's funny. Climbers are witnessing the glaciers receding and it's going to affect Billions but folks are still willing to say "nothing to worry about, it's a scam!"
Peace
Karl
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Skip,
I hope you aren't too lonely in the Great Northwest tomorrow. I'll be in blue and gold watching tomorrow, but from the warmth of California.
GO BEARS!
John
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jstan
climber
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I watched a part of the lecture series for Ed's link. I think the most hopeful thing I saw came when the students in the hall used their clickers to express their opinion as to the most serious danger that may be posed by climate change.
INADEQUATE SUPPLIES OF FRESH WATER
And this coming from a group of people living just four or five blocks from Lake Michigan.
I wish I thought the people in LA felt this way.
Their water comes from the Owens Valley, or further.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Can You Believe It? Alleged Carbon Fraud in...Denmark
First, there were those infamous hacked e-mails from the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) at the University of East Anglia. Now, a mere seven days before the Copenhagen Conference on climate change, this breaking news story takes the breath away. The whole ‘global warming’ shambles is falling apart. Today, The Copenhagen Post declares: “Denmark Rife With CO2 Fraud”:
“Denmark is the centre of a comprehensive tax scam involving CO2 quotas, in which the cheats exploit a so-called ‘VAT carrousel’, reports Ekstra Bladet newspaper.
Police and authorities in several European countries are investigating scams worth billions of kroner, which all originate in the Danish quota register. The CO2 quotas are traded in other EU countries.”
And the fraud may be of massive proportions:
“Ekstra Bladet reporters have found examples of people using false addresses and companies that are in liquidation, which haven’t been removed from the register.
One of the cases, which stems from the Danish register, involves fraud of more than 8 billion kroner. This case, in which nine people have been arrested, is being investigated in England.”
What can one say?
We all knew from the start that carbon trading could prove, by its very nature, a crooks’ charter. But such an allegation relating to Denmark, of all places, at the precise moment of the Copenhagen Conference, where such cap-and-trade measures will be at the forefront of debate, must have the Little Mermaid crying so much that sea-levels may indeed rise.
Simply staggering! How long can this ‘global warming’ nonsense be tolerated? As Marcellus declares, “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.”
http://web.me.com/sinfonia1/Clamour_Of_The_Times/Clamour_Of_The_Times/Entries/2009/12/1_Can_You_Believe_It_Alleged_Carbon_Fraud_in...Denmark.html
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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The real question here is whether climate change is a result of mankind. Anthropogenic. Climates do change, always have, even before the industrial revolution. Look at the little ice-age.
Glaciers retreating? Maybe. Are we causing it, is it because of fossil fuels, or something else? That's the real question.
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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That's the real question.
And if you want an answer you can choose to have it handed to you by Fox or rantburg, etc., or you can educate yourself and look at all the raw data and research that Ed has linked.
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dirtbag
climber
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And if you want an answer you can choose to have it handed to you by Fox or rantburg, etc., or you can educate yourself and look at all the raw data and research that Ed has linked.
They'll pick Rantburg.
And Rush, and Lew Rockwell, and the Washington Times...
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dirtbag
climber
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or the Weekly Standard
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Forget all those Bookworm links or cut-and pastes, you just need to read this one.
CLIMATE CHANGE EMAILS STOP GLACIERS FROM MELTING
25-11-09
GLACIERS in the Alps, Andes and Himalayas have stopped melting after the release of secret emails showing climate change scientists are at it.
The Donnelly ice shelf has seen the error of its ways. Vast ice sheets across the globe gained up to four inches just hours after it emerged experts at the University of East Anglia had been manipulating data in a bid to knock-off early.
Meanwhile in the Antarctic the 200 square mile Donnelly ice shelf changed direction and headed back towards the continent where it then reattached itself to the slightly larger McPartlin ice shelf.
Climate change sceptic and fully-qualified blogger Martin Bishop said: "As soon as these emails were released the world's glaciers resumed their normal, icey behaviour, as long-predicted by some of London's most important journalists."
There's more...
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/environment/climate-change-emails-stop-glaciers-from-melting-200911252254/
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Ed
Which is a more efficient use of resources: to adapt
to climate change or try to stop it?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Ed wrote
"Someone said in some letter somewhere they hoped that science would get back to "finding the truth," but that is not what science does. Science seeks understanding and knows that "truth" is provisional, Newton's universe is different than Einstein's universe, in their own physical regimes they are both true, I would hesitate to proclaim Truth, however, as we never really get there. That is not saying we don't understand things, and amazingly well in some cases. One of my colleagues, weary of my arguing this point once said in an exasperated English accent "that's truth enough for me." "
Nice, Climate change scientists have been happy to admit they miscalculated things as the data and science unfold. Unfortunatley, the crow they have eaten has been almost universally something like "Observed changes in glacial melt and sea level rise continue to outpace the models and expectations."
Peace
Karl
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