Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2009 - 01:17am PT
|
A thousand or so uninformed posts later, it seems somewhat unfortunate in this case we can't also make text blink and strobe as well:
"The hooking at times was not obvious and didn't appear to be enhanced with a drill..."
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Nov 23, 2009 - 10:36pm PT
|
This route was done before the PRS (Personalized Rating System) confused everything so badly. What did you guys do with the failed Zeemac crap rivets and batheads once they failed on you? Stick a hook in the hole? Did you guys even have a bolt kit for a one day attempt?
These gents hauled 1070 pounds of gear and supplies and took almost three weeks to get to your highpoint. Check out the provisions and gear list that they took for this route. Thirty days to the Aquarian and then nine more to Rim Out!
Ever seen such a mess?
Healy- A tiny but exciting Bwanadimple only needs to be big enough to accomodate the tip of a narrow Logan hook. With your extensive aid climbing experience...that doesn't change the basic quandry even though we all know that these guys are your buddies.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Nov 24, 2009 - 12:13am PT
|
The first two pages may give PTPP some ideas for his next camping trip...
Or maybe they already did.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Nov 24, 2009 - 12:27am PT
|
"The hooking at times was not obvious and didn't appear to be enhanced with a drill..."
"The hooking at times was not obvious and didn't appear to be enhanced with a drill..."
"The hooking at times was not obvious and didn't appear to be enhanced with a drill..."
"The hooking at times was not obvious and didn't appear to be enhanced with a drill..."
"The hooking at times was not obvious and didn't appear to be enhanced with a drill..."
"The hooking at times was not obvious and didn't appear to be enhanced with a drill..."
"The hooking at times was not obvious and didn't appear to be enhanced with a drill..."
"The hooking at times was not obvious and didn't appear to be enhanced with a drill..."
"The hooking at times was not obvious and didn't appear to be enhanced with a drill..."
|
|
pc
climber
East of Seattle
|
|
|
Nov 24, 2009 - 01:17am PT
|
Best thread in the history of the Taco. Thanks for the entertainment/edu.
pc
|
|
madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2009 - 07:44am PT
|
The available evidence continues to verify our claims of lo these many decades.
Nobody can mistake what a moving target the whole critique has become, and SG is now almost alone in ignoring the piles of evidence of how misguided he has been on this whole subject.
The route was old-school A4/A5, we did not overdrill it, what FEW "enhancements" we did are nothing like "dimples" (as SG continues to stupidly assert) and are not even visible at all to the naked eye (because a few micro-grams were removed over the whole route (and NONE of that with straight-in drilling), and the ONLY "dimples" supposedly visible to others are on the ninth pitch and exist only according to SG.
Furthermore, the ninth pitch is the easiest for anybody to get onto, so any dimpling that MAY exist there now does not reflect what we did. We did not dimple on the route. Not a lot. Not a little. Not at all. SG continues to assert dimples. We deny them. Objective evidence accumulated over the hardest pitches on the route continues to confirm the accuracy of our denial. SG clings tenuously to this lie, as what he claims to have seen on the ninth pitch (one of the easiest on the route) grounds his last, fading shred of hope to get ONE bit of the "botch" to still stick.
The batheads were a lame experiment, which we readily admit and quickly abandoned, and there are only a few of them. (They are easily yanked and replaced by rivets. Big deal.) No botch. The Zamac rivets were intentional and a philosophical choice. We don't apologize for those, even knowing all we know today. We wanted body-weight-only rivets, and we got them. We would do that same thing again. As the Bird said, "Keep the commitment level high."
Summary of the moving "botch" target over the decades:
"A thousand bolts to Horse Chute." Nope.
"Ridiculously overdrilled." Nope.
"Almost every other placement is a rivet or bolt." Nope.
"Virtually every placement required the use of the drill." Nope.
"Miles of trenched heads and drilled hooks." Nope.
"My grandma could do that route in less than a day." Nope.
"The route is unrepeatable." Inconsistent with the above, and... Nope.
"Utter botch job by two incompetents." Nope.
"Terrible style for sure!" Nope.
Not one single person that has actually been on the route substantiates a single one of these "botch" claims. SG, who has never been on the route, remains resolute that the route was a "botch." But, there is no "heavy-handed use of the drill" in evidence, and not a "dimple" to be found, because, and I repeat, we didn't "dimple." And, despite claims to the contrary, the route is clearly repeatable in decent style... without dimpling. We now know of quite a few teams making it at least as high as the fifth anchor, presumably without further "enhancements" of their own.
About the only "mess" SG has left to assert, given nothing but continuous collaboration of our assertions about the reasonable style of the original climbing, is that we were slow and took a lot of junk.
Ok, guilty as charged. Of course, there was water pouring down the route until mid-afternoon most days (1982 was a record run-off year). We lost almost a week to storms (including one three-day storm that required rescue for three other teams). We gave up almost a week to Sabbaths. My ankle had been recently dislocated, which certainly slowed me down. And we were trying to free climb everything we thought was remotely possible in our EBs. Oh, and drilling those 3/8" anchor bolts with the old-style drilling gear took days over the course of the route. And, nobody can really say how long such a route should have taken on the FA, since there is no other route like it. Sure, we're slow, but there's a lot more to even that side of this story. But, even granting that we were PATHETICALLY slow, so what? What did that harm?
The "botch" target keeps moving, but it's getting harder and harder to find something to paint it on. (How many different threads have you/Mimi copied that gear list excerpt onto now, SG?)
I'm waiting to see how long it will be before (if ever) SG mans up enough to admit that on every substantive point concerning the route we left behind, he was mistaken. I won't hold my breath. lol
|
|
TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
|
|
|
Nov 24, 2009 - 10:51am PT
|
Using "dimple" as a verb. Feck.
Now there's a botch of the english language.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
|
Nov 24, 2009 - 11:12am PT
|
Compare the time it takes to repete a pitch VS lead it for the first time is so lame as to be completely about as fckin stupid as it can get in the climbing world. Even if the hardware is old crap and rusted its is still way less work to repete than it is to FA.
I can't believe you idiots are still bashing these guys without ever haveing actualy repeted the rout.
It you have not led the rout in it's entirety ground up you quite simply do not have the right to trash it.
On the otherhand madbolter is so long winded and anal in his postings that he must be desperatly in need of professional therapy.
carry on;)
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Nov 24, 2009 - 11:17am PT
|
Tradman, you obviously weren't listening or didn't understand when it was explained in great detail why it was that subsequent ascents would definitely and necessarily be much, much harder than the FA and that there could never, ever be a second ascent of the line anyway.
|
|
fush
climber
NV
|
|
|
Nov 24, 2009 - 11:22am PT
|
I heard it was Russ Walling that sh#t on the ropes and chopped their bolts.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
|
Nov 24, 2009 - 11:43am PT
|
Your right I did Not read all the fine print and wankery but a climb is just a climb. They are all pretty much the same like it or not. The first guys go up there and risk their lifes cleaning and equiping on lead. then all the monday morning QBs pick you apart while they clip the hardware that was not there when you did all the real work.
Even if hardware is rusted to crap it is still easier to clip the old crap while you drill a new hole than it is to be the first one up there. So yea, Either STFU and climb the rout replaceing the old crap as you go or admit that the climb is too hard for you and give the FA party the credit for putting up a climb that kicked your arse so bad that you dident even try it...
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Nov 24, 2009 - 11:59am PT
|
And the gassy knoll...
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Nov 24, 2009 - 12:12pm PT
|
That's some serious slander fush.
Of course you're hiding as a chickenshit behind a fake avatar with only one post ever without ever bringing your real identity to light.
Russ never has to take the elevator that far down to sh'it on anybodies rope.
He'll just face you head on an offer you a knuckle sandwich instead.
|
|
Prod
Trad climber
Dodge Sprinter Dreaming
|
|
|
Nov 24, 2009 - 12:22pm PT
|
Just a theory,
The shitter (or ers) was most likely someone of no importance, lacking the skills to impress the masses, and the smarts and balls to stand alone as an individual. Basically your garden variety sycophant, trying to impress the “Gods”. In this theory they are just older versions of their old self now, who most likely still don’t “get it”.
In this world there are very few people I would literally sh#t on (even if that was their thing), but you should be damn sure that I’d do it with pride. My thought is that shitting on ropes isn't Russ's bag.
As for the rest of the WoS stuff, I enjoy reading it, you guys entertain me. I would like to see a remake of Kurosawa’s Rashomon made about it though.
Prod.
AKA Guy Kenny (no hiding my thoughts here Mr. Braun)
*EDIT* ADDITIONAL PUSSY ALERT "FUSH" you gutless p.o.s. 1 post?
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Nov 24, 2009 - 12:25pm PT
|
Richard define style in two thousand words or so.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Nov 24, 2009 - 01:15pm PT
|
Check it out; they placed 205 copperheads and 165 total drilled placements in only nine pitches.
This confirms there's no real natural line there. Excessive use of copperheads has always to me seemed as "forced".
This is my own personal view. I'd hate to force a line with excessive use of heads and drilled holes.
The Tribal Rite first ascent team also got some heat for trying to force a huge blank section below El Cap Towers. They decided to abandon that line to El Cap towers.
I believe this may be what the guys back then also were seeing and envisioned when the WOS guys wanted to take their line of ascension.
Sure the locals were passionately protective, that's what happens in any climbing area. They did confront Richard and Mark. I didn't go to that meeting and have no idea what happened there.
I did talk to Richard and Mark right before that meeting and they were actually weighing the merits of canceling their attempt due to all the heat.
After the erasure attempt and defilement of their personal gear the pendulum swung to a complete "f*#k you guys" we're going to go climb El Cap as we originally planed.
Most likely the guys that went up to erase their attempt had the same "f*#k you" attitude after that meeting.
Somebody also went far beyond the extra mile to sh'it on their ropes which is so far below the basement it's astonishing.
Yosemite is a very high profile place and everything generally is going to be looked at under a microscope and spun in every different direction by all the spin doctors.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Nov 24, 2009 - 01:17pm PT
|
If Russ was going to sh#t on ropes he'd be have developed a Fish RopeShitter for the job and you'd still be able to buy one today.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
|
Nov 24, 2009 - 01:27pm PT
|
What about all the other bolt ladders on that stone? Is it not true that the pecking order has more to do with how many holes you were allowed to drill than anything else?
N.conway certainly still follows this system. lately a bunch of bolts have been placed on rapell by one of the walk on water alumni. Not even the hint of a peep from the choppers...
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Nov 24, 2009 - 01:27pm PT
|
Add to leaving the ground in a state of war with The Yosemite Climbers/SAR (after their unprecedented abuse at the hands and sphincters of an elite group of the aforementioned tormenters) the fact that Richard had a badly sprained ankle from a fall on the first pitch and you begin to get the spirit of this venture.
The Book of Dick makes all of these events quite plain and I will be exerpting it frequently for the edification of all who are interested. A many splendored thing is The Book of Dick.
Now back to that style definition so that we can stay on track at least a little.
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
|
|
|
Nov 24, 2009 - 01:38pm PT
|
Thx Calder
Does Tim post on the Taco?
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!