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WBraun
climber
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May 31, 2017 - 07:50am PT
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How would you stop factory farming of animals and of the land?
Can't stop it in this day and age yet.
Too much materialistic brainwashed people.
Material nature will ultimately force them to stop it by Karmic reactions.
It will be a very very long time coming, thousands of years.
It will get very very bad.
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feralfae
Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
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May 31, 2017 - 08:15am PT
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Admittedly we are a very young species, but Werner, do you not think there is hope of living according tour ethics, and therefore being examples -- models -- of more rational ways to live? Materialism is a driving force of this nation's dominant culture, but not of all cultures.
It might get very, very bad, but we are thinking, conscious humans. Is it within our ability to shift the paradigm? :) No future is set in stone: we have options. How do you see us exercising those options that are more rational?
And more essentially, how do you see us, as humans, choosing those options when even as we write, the other discussion here is about science and its pros and cons. We have choices, but I find many people do not want to live simply. And those peoples who do choose to live simply are often invaded by corporate interests who want the resources on that piece of geography.
We embrace and utilize materialism for many creature comforts and conveniences, but in some instances we know better. Why do we not, therefore, act better?
I must get to work.
ff
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WBraun
climber
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May 31, 2017 - 08:27am PT
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No future is set in stone
You will get kicked out of your material body when your number of breaths (prana) is used up.
Soo .... it is set in stone you WILL get kicked out.
The gross materialists call this death and final due to their ultimate poor fund of knowledge.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 31, 2017 - 08:29am PT
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Ah Werner.....my material body rotting away will signal the end.....alas, there is no more.
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WBraun
climber
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May 31, 2017 - 08:31am PT
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Jim Donini Will return in his next life and be a climber again.
It's guaranteed, for someone who's consciousness is so deeply trenched ...
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feralfae
Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
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May 31, 2017 - 08:48am PT
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But Werner, that is just a loss of this body, like shedding an old coat that no longer serves its purpose. It does not mean that I end, nor that my consciousness ends. It merely means that this body I occupy will be ferret food. Or wolf or eagle food, if I have my way and am able to sit somewhere, sing my last song, and leave my body to return to the Earth. But this is not me, it is just a body.
So, I suppose that things set in stone have to do with stones, but things set in spirit, or consciousness, may have a longer time of existence. I do not know. I know I am more than this body. Although I do like this body very much, and it has taken me on wonderful adventures.
Someone reminded me that I not only heat with wood, but mostly, I heat with sun. My home is mostly solar heated, actually. Just to clarify.
Yes, some signs are set in stone, I suppose, because someday our sun will expand, consume its planets, and poof! it will be over for this little solar system. By then, maybe humans will be elsewhere. I don't know. I am only an egg. :)
Thank you,
ff
ps... I could see Donini coming back as an eagle, soaring over the peaks and seeing all that eagles can see. Transcending climbing. Or maybe a pilot of Montgolfier vintage. AFAIK, there are no rules about moving back and forth in time. You, with your rescue capabilities, might be a Saint Bernard, or the chap who slides down lines to rescue stranded dolphins or something. I am only being slightly silly here. I do not know. I must go get muddy now, as much as I am enjoying this exchange.
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WBraun
climber
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May 31, 2017 - 08:57am PT
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It does not mean that I end, nor that my consciousness ends.
That's what I said.
Also ....
Donini will be a climber.
His whole consciousness is trenched in it ......
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2017 - 09:46am PT
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Another horrible mass killing, this one in Kabul, Afghanistan, likely performed under the guise of religion, but more likely performed by the misguided religious fanatic acting under the auspice of some one or some group who would mock any god their followers believe in.
Conversely, we here at home have the lovely Jeremy Christian, from Portland, so bent out of shape with his own fanatical views on religion that murder is an acceptable behavior.
When religion is used as a shiny object to divert one's attention from true good, it is evil.
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WBraun
climber
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May 31, 2017 - 10:07am PT
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Another horrible mass killing,
By the religion of gross materialism .......
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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May 31, 2017 - 11:57am PT
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"Another horrible mass killing, this one in Kabul, Afghanistan, likely performed under the guise of religion, but more likely performed by the misguided religious fanatic acting under the auspice of some one or some group who would mock any god their followers believe in."
As Yuval Harari points out (Sapiens, Homo Deus), we all have narratives or fictions ("stories we believe in") running in our heads as software driving/motivating our conduct.
Now if you happen to think iron-age "religion" - in particular its iron-age elements - ("God wants this" "God hates that") don't play a proactive role in this motivation among umpteen millions - not just in the U.S. but around the world (eg, Middle East)- you are misguided, imo, and maybe even, in some way or other, (a) serving to provide cover for this archaica, inhibiting its elimination, encouraging its continuance, (b) serving to thwart incentive to update/upgrade or reinterpret - which many an Abrahamic narrative adherent obviously and seriously needs to do.
https://www.amazon.com/Sapiens-Humankind-Yuval-Noah-Harari/dp/0062316095/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1496257099&sr=8-1&keywords=yuval+harari
If only early and medieval "religion" had had some sort of "error correcting" mechanism, or adaptation mechanism, or upgrading mechanism built in to its institution in a much more proactive way, somehow or another, then perhaps today our world's Abrahamic religions in particular would exist in much better form and higher regards.
For too many, myself included, the word "religion" will always stand for belief in the supernatural or belief in an intervening personal deity. It will always stand for something more than (a) a system that articulates "what matters" in addition to "what is" (the purview of science) or else (b) a system that articulates how we should live our lives in terms of prescription (dos and don'ts). Therefore for these people (like myself) it will remain a problematic word.
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WBraun
climber
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May 31, 2017 - 12:03pm PT
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Yuval Harari perfect for a guy like you who continually presents so many mental speculations and opinions masqueraded as facts ......
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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May 31, 2017 - 12:04pm PT
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Yeah, I'm sure you've read him. /s
You know, others here may tolerate you or placate you but I think as a poster you're a disgrace.
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WBraun
climber
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May 31, 2017 - 12:06pm PT
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He's easy to figure out .. just like you .....
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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May 31, 2017 - 12:49pm PT
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DMT: . . . would we accept a scientific reasoning to cull our herd?
You go first, ok?
(Eugenics can be a “reasonable” social agenda—but next we’ll have to be talking about what’s reasonable and how to assess and compare reasons.)
Duck: . . . perfect for a guy . . . who continually presents so many mental speculations and opinions masqueraded as facts ......
Yes. It’s very very difficult to see without speculation, interpretation, opinion, without choosing. It’s so very difficult that one cannot do it.
Quack quack.
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John M
climber
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May 31, 2017 - 01:27pm PT
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Yes. It’s very very difficult to see without speculation, interpretation, opinion, without choosing. It’s so very difficult that one cannot do it.
Quack quack.
Its the masquerading as fact that is the problem.
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TYeary
Social climber
State of decay
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May 31, 2017 - 02:22pm PT
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Religion makes it possible for millions to believe in what only a madman could believe on his own.
Paraphrasing Sam Harris:
TY
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
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May 31, 2017 - 02:37pm PT
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I have found my religion!
It's Terrie's BEAUTIFUL wire wrapped necklaces. I'm becoming a collector. Can't stop .... I LOVE THEM
Susan
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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May 31, 2017 - 02:40pm PT
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Religion makes it possible for millions to believe in what only a madman could believe on his own.
Paraphrasing Sam Harris:
Religion has made it possible since the Paleolithic period for humanity to reconcile itself to the riddle and terror it is born into. In that sense it has served an important purpose. As well, religion is a reflection of psychological elements so deeply imbedded in the human psyche as to be called archetypes by some. Celebration and exposition of these archetypes is a release from the strain of an other wise debilitating energy and anxiety from which all eventually suffer: the loss of a loved one, tragedy of one kind or another, poor health and eventually that "distinguished thing."
Knock it till you need it.
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Bushman
climber
The state of quantum flux
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May 31, 2017 - 05:16pm PT
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'Covfefe' What an amateur!
Islandunism and Felinedificatonia
Processes whereby a person's belief system and religious institutions have been subject to constant revision and/or dramatic upheaval or scandal, leaving the person with a sense of abandonment, betrayal, resentment, and sometimes guilt. The process often leaves a person feeling isolated and suspicious of other's motives, with no avenues of emotional support.
Many find themselves at an impasse whereby their religious views and belief systems are cast aside. Some find solace in other religions, or possibly join cults. Others simply abandon their belief in religion, spiritual ideas, and/or god altogether. Of the latter, some go into a self imposed emotional isolation in an effort to insulate their emotions from future betrayal by other human beings. Of this group, a percentage has been known to possess up to forty or more cats.
My take away after having my religion and family dynamic ripped away during childhood was that I was left with a feeling of enormous guilt coupled with inescapable thoughts of impending doom. My reaction was to curse god, denounce him, and to commence upon a fruitless search for a meaning to life outside my own nuclear family. The end result was that after 40 years in an existentialist desert, I was able to find solace in the simple realization that whatever I thought I was looking for, the key to my peace of mind had been with me all along; a love of art, science, history, literature, and an infatuation with the natural world.
God and/or an explanation of it was no longer interesting to me and a belief in things spiritual was no longer necessary to me.
PS
Among my peers this view has opened me up to some criticism, for which (because I still process some traces of lingering guilt) I am sometimes penitent of. But then I am compelled once more by a sense of willful rebellion to get right back to asserting my uninhibited thoughts on the matter.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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May 31, 2017 - 05:24pm PT
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"Religion has made it possible since the Paleolithic period for humanity to reconcile itself to the riddle and terror it is born into. In that sense it has served an important purpose. As well, religion is a reflection of psychological elements so deeply imbedded in the human psyche as to be called archetypes by some."
Yes,yes, and now it is time we moved on. Sheesh.
Knock it till you need it.
Really, you think the majority of us are that weak willed, do you? Sheesh.
Jordan Peterson: "Stand up straight. Have the guts to look at life for exactly what it is. Speak the truth. Take responsibility."
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