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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 16, 2016 - 08:48am PT
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Oh right, they have to figure out whether Kalifornians vote to require porn stars to wear condoms.
I thought plastic bags have been banned?
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 16, 2016 - 08:58am PT
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Us and them is so...
...Paleolithic.
“If you are distressed by anything external, the pain is not due to the thing itself, but to your estimate of it; and this you have the power to revoke at any moment.”
~ Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Nov 16, 2016 - 09:05am PT
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I thought plastic bags have been banned?
If you were paying attention, you would have noticed I solved that problem for the Cali folks a few pages back....or was that the other thread? lol
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Nov 16, 2016 - 09:11am PT
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Do you even climb bro? ^^^^
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Nov 16, 2016 - 09:30am PT
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Why are they bothering to finish counting the votes?
Good question. Why bother to count votes?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Nov 16, 2016 - 10:10am PT
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Opinions
I told conservatives to work for Trump. One talk with his team changed my mind.
By Eliot A. Cohen
Eliot A. Cohen is the author of the forthcoming “The Big Stick: The Limits of Soft Power and the Necessity of Military Force.” He served as counselor of the State Department from 2007 to 2009.
I am a national security Never-Trumper who, after the election, made the case that young conservatives should volunteer to serve in the new administration, warily, their undated letters of resignation ready. That advice, I have concluded, was wrong.
My about-face began with a discreet request to me from a friend in Trumpworld to provide names — unsullied by having signed the two anti-Trump foreign policy letters — of those who might be willing to serve. My friend and I had agreed to disagree a while back about my taking an uncompromising anti-Trump stand; now, he wanted assistance and I willingly complied.
After an exchange about a senior figure who would not submit a résumé but would listen if contacted, an email exchange ensued that I found astonishing. My friend was seething with anger directed at those of us who had opposed Donald Trump — even those who stood ready to help steer good people to an administration that understandably wanted nothing to do with the likes of me, someone who had been out front in opposing Trump since the beginning.
This friend was someone I liked and admired, and still do. It was a momentary eruption of temper, and we have since patched up our relationship. I surmise that he has been furious for some time, knowing that supporting Trump has been distinctly unpopular in his normal circles. He is in the midst of a transition team that was never well-prepared to begin with and is now torn by acrimony, resignations and palace coups. And then there are the pent-up resentments against a liberal intellectual and media establishment that scorned his ilk for years.
I sympathize, but the episode has caused me to change my mind about recommending that conservatives serve in the administration, albeit with a firm view in their minds of what would cause them to quit. This was a tipping point. The tenor of the Trump team, from everything I see, read and hear, is such that, for a garden-variety Republican policy specialist, service in the early phase of the administration would carry a high risk of compromising one’s integrity and reputation.
In a normal transition to a normal administration, there’s always disorder. There are the presidential friends and second cousins, the flacks and the hangers-on who flame out in the first year or two. There are the bad choices — the abusive bosses, the angry ideologues and the sheer dullards. You accept the good with the bad and know that there will be stupid stuff going on, particularly at the beginning. Things shake out. Even if you are just blocking errors, it is a contribution.
This time may be different. Trump was not a normal candidate, the transition is not a normal transition, and this will probably not be a normal administration. The president-elect is surrounding himself with mediocrities whose chief qualification seems to be unquestioning loyalty. He gets credit for becoming a statesman when he says something any newly elected president might say (“I very much look forward to dealing with the president in the future”) — and then reverts to tweeting against demonstrators and the New York Times. By all accounts, his ignorance, and that of his entourage, about the executive branch is fathomless. It’s not even clear that he accepts that he should live in the White House rather than in his gilt-smeared penthouse in New York.
In the best of times, government service carries with it the danger of compromising your principles. Here, though, we may be in for something much worse. The canary in the coal mine was not merely the selection of Stephen K. Bannon for the job previously filled by John Podesta and Karl Rove, that of counselor to the president and chief strategist. Rather, the warning signs came from the Republican leaders excusing and normalizing this sinister character — and those who then justified the normalizers.
One bad boss can be endured. A gaggle of them will poison all decision-making. They will turn on each other. No band of brothers this: rather the permanent campaign as waged by triumphalist rabble-rousers and demagogues, abetted by people out of their depth and unfit for the jobs they will hold, gripped by grievance, resentment and lurking insecurity. Their mistakes — because there will be mistakes — will be exceptional.
Nemesis pursues and punishes all administrations, but this one will get a double dose. Until it can acquire some measure of humility about what it knows, and a degree of magnanimity to those who have opposed it, it will smash into crises and failures. With the disarray of its transition team, in a way, it already has.
My bottom line: Conservative political types should not volunteer to serve in this administration, at least for now. They would probably have to make excuses for things that are inexcusable and defend people who are indefensible. At the very least, they should wait to see who gets the top jobs. Until then, let the Trump team fill the deputy assistant secretary and assistant secretary jobs with civil servants, retired military officers and diplomats, or the large supply of loyal or obsequious second-raters who will be eager to serve. The administration may shake itself out in a year or two and reach out to others who have been worried about Trump. Or maybe not.
I hope that I am wrong. I hope that the administration will settle down and that I can cheer it when it is right and offer temperate criticisms when it is wrong. But the auspices here are disturbing.
So what should the policy community do for now? Do what you can do in other venues, and remember that this too will pass, and some day a more normal kind of administration will either emerge or replace this one.
Your country still needs you — just not yet.
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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Nov 16, 2016 - 10:12am PT
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Colbert, Noah and Maher will be peddling their libtard agenda in Guantanamo soon enough
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 16, 2016 - 10:18am PT
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^^^^Yes, let's start with first things first and get rid of that troublesome first amendment! What were those Founding Fathers thinking?
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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Nov 16, 2016 - 10:58am PT
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Trump is still tweeting like a spoiled teenager
You can't make this stuff up!
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 16, 2016 - 12:26pm PT
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Why was Washington post considered?
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Nov 16, 2016 - 12:27pm PT
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ROTFLMAO. So, let me get this straight, there are people out there who think they are going to somehow hurt Donald Trump, President-Elect, by boycotting his businesses?
Do you not get that being president, regardless of how shitty you were at it, pretty much sets you up for life?
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Nov 16, 2016 - 12:27pm PT
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Just let CA choose the president.
Good idea.
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Nov 16, 2016 - 01:18pm PT
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Yeah, do away with the EC. Just let CA choose the president.
At least we'd get better presidents that way.
Curt
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SusanA
Sport climber
Bay Area
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Nov 16, 2016 - 01:19pm PT
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Of course the vampires support Trump, lol!
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Nov 16, 2016 - 01:36pm PT
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I listened to the "Fresh Air" show on NOR last night. It was about whether or not Trump could do the things he had promised in his campaign. The answer was often "yes."
One thing I thought, during the campaign, when Trump was saying how we couldn't let China keep "wining(my word, not his)," was this: If we make reductions on what we import from China, this will have a direct affect on the work of many, many US people. The entire handbag market I used to work in employed hundreds of people who, without China, would have no jobs. It is fra from the only segment of our economy that is dependent on doing business with China. Every office that designs, manufactures an/or markets goods they import from China would be immediately screwed....thousands. Many thousands, of people.
Ans so, it was eerily satisfying to hear the interviewee say the following:
A trade war could be a really dramatic turn in American economic history. If you talk to independent analysts, people who are not involved in either campaign, somebody - there's a guy, for instance, named Mark Zandi, who's an economist at Moody's Analytics. And he's worked for Republicans and he's worked for Democrats in the past. And what he says is that Trump's plan, if he actually did the things that he said he would and triggered a trade war with China that that would put probably somewhere around 4 million Americans out of work. And then over the ensuing recession that it would also cost the economy another 3 million jobs that would have been created otherwise.
Most economists broadly agree that a trade war would be hugely damaging to the United States. It's worth pointing out that actually Trump's own trade advisers, somebody named Peter Navarro and Dan D'Amico, they disagree. They believe that in fact it could be beneficial to the United States http://www.npr.org/2016/11/15/502157875/could-trump-undermine-the-legacy-of-the-obama-presidency-with-the-stroke-of-a-pe
The interviewer also delves into plenty of other topics, ending with discussion on Bannon in the White House, and ominously states:
You know, I just have to say, I mean, this was so preposterous that we'd be talking about this a couple of years ago, that it's a reminder of how much politics have changed and been changed by the candidacy of Donald Trump. Now, look, how that actually translates into a White House, we don't yet know. But Steve Bannon is now a couple of steps from the Oval Office, and that's - we're in uncharted territory there.
Donald Trump, IMO, is the 21st Century version of the Cuban Missile Crisis. The question is, Can we avert catastrophe this time around?
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 16, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
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We could have last week, but too many Americans gave a damn about the damned emails. We're going to pay as a result.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Nov 16, 2016 - 02:02pm PT
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The job of government ought be to pass legislation which supports policy aimed towards helping people get into decent housing, afford a useful education, access adequate healthcare, and encourage a market for meaningful work all-while enabling the economy and balancing the needs of the environment.
Which government are you speaking of? Hopefully not the United States' Government....
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Nov 16, 2016 - 02:52pm PT
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Happie,
Fear of a trade war should concern any knowledgeable economist, and any American who wants the economy to prosper. Unfortunately, those helped by trade aren't as easy to identify as those hurt by trade. As an example, the U.S. controls imports of sugar to protect the domestic sugar growers. As a result, U.S. sugar prices exceed world prices by about 60%.
One study demonstrated that for every job the U.S. saved in the sugar industry by restricting imports, it lost three. The problem comes because those who lack jobs because we pay an inflated price for sugar don't know who they are -- and either do I, or any politician. We can, however, easily identify who would lose a job if foreign competition shuts down the sugar industry.
Moreover, the loss of one domestic industry to trade usually doesn't happen in the same place where we gain industry by trade. If I'm an out-of-work steel worker in Pennsylvania, it doesn't follow that new domestic production taking place because we have access to cheaper steel will take place in Pennsylvania, or that it will require the skills I acquired in my prior job.
Both Trump and Clinton proposed protectionist policies that, if carried out, would create economic disaster not just here, but worldwide. That's not what we need. We do, however, need true "investment in people," meaning worthwhile, effective education and job training, and compassionate financial aid that encourages people to find new work. Last time I checked, I didn't see either party providing that.
John
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