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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Feb 15, 2017 - 02:29pm PT
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No my friend, they impeached him because they could (all it takes is a majority vote) and there is not a court in the land that would convict anyone of perjury or obstruction of justice for lying about a consensual and legal act of sex. This was not material to their investigation into possible criminal acts that simply were not there. You can lie under oath as long as it is about non-criminal activity that is not material to the main investigation which was into sexual abuse charges by Paula Jones. By no stretch is this BJ material. And that my friend is Republican style hypocrisy.
There was no Court of Law that found him guilty of any charges or would even prosecute this.
Above is basically a load of crap--it would be interesting to hear the poster explain his basis for thinking that he knows what the various "courts in the land" would do about much of anything.
In fact, we can get a pretty good idea of what courts may do about Clinton's perjury because of what they actually did.
The US Supreme Court suspended his license to practice before it, in anticipation of disbarring him. (He resigned before he could be disbarred--the old "you can't fire me, I quit.")
Same thing happened in Arkansas (he accepted a five year suspension in what appears to be sort of a plea deal to head off criminal charges).
He was sanctioned by the judge in the Paula Jones case.
Being sanctioned and disbarred is not the same thing as being criminally convicted. Nevertheless, Kingtut's musings that Bill's lying under oath was not serious and would not be punished by competent legal authorities is demonstrably false.
This liberal fantasy that Bill's lying under oath wasn't serious or didn't even happen (a lot of them still believe he didn't even really lie--he just gave "artful" answers--in fact, he lied his ass off) isn't too dissimilar from what seems to be happening with Trump supporters.
http://www.snopes.com/bill-clinton-fined-and-disbarred-over-the-monica-lewinsky-scandal/
(Edit--normally I don't think much of Snopes as a fact checker as it's unsourced and has a clear liberal bias. But if liberal Snopes busts Clinton, you can bet it all pans out)
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Feb 15, 2017 - 02:46pm PT
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However, when Trump lies about illegal voting (and just about everything else), that, coming from the sitting president, doesn't undermine the legitimacy of his office and, thus, our system of government?
No more than candidate Clinton lying repeatedly during the email investigation, and you guys were just fine with that.
I for one don't believe that Trump would be any less dishonest under oath.
What you believe or don't believe is immaterial to our system of government, fortunately. Get him under oath, and then we'll talk about the results.
I'll trade you Bill's one lie for the untold number of whoppers Trump has uttered.
Trade all you want. A sitting president perjuring himself is in fact a crime. Lying is not a crime.
You set the bar wherever it pleases you. Fortunately, what pleases you or doesn't is totally irrelevant to the laws of the land and our system of government. Thus, your claims about Trump undermining our system of government are mere opinion on your part. Irrelevant to the facts.
You have the right to your opinions and the right to express them. But stating them as actual fact is just wishful thinking... again, your right, but not very compelling to others that don't already share your opinions.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Feb 15, 2017 - 02:46pm PT
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Look for him to start a war.
Especially if it's an easy target like Panama, or Grenada.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Feb 15, 2017 - 02:55pm PT
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Flynn, gone. Puzder, withdraws. Bannon, pissed at Breitbart. Kellyanne Boozelizard, counseled.
So far so good.
#insaneclownposse
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Feb 15, 2017 - 05:01pm PT
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Thus, your claims about Trump undermining our system of government are mere opinion on your part. Irrelevant to the facts.
The fact is Trump put Sessions in charge of the DOJ, which (among other things) is supposed to act as a check on the executive branch.
With Sessions being such an integral part of the Trump campaign, the million-dollar question now is whether or not he folds to Trump, or investigates the Russian connection(s).
So far, Sessions hasn't recused himself and he hasn't signaled he will investigate. So if putting your puppet in charge of the department meant to hold your executive office in line is not a form of undermining our government, then I'm not sure what would be.
I was thinking about why I like the American form of Government versus the Russian form.
How about you Madbolter, what do you think are the pluses of the American gov't over the Russian way of doing things.
Do you think Trump holds your same views on this?
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Feb 15, 2017 - 05:22pm PT
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Thus, your claims about Trump undermining our system of government are mere opinion on your part. Irrelevant to the facts. My opinion is shared by a great many other Americans and people in government. The press. The judiciary. Even the Republican members of Congress have (reluctantly) expressed concern about Trump's conduct.
Related question: why are you defending his consistent record of lying? I can understand the desire not to admit that you voted for this horror show, but deny the obvious?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Feb 15, 2017 - 06:26pm PT
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My opinion is shared by a great many other Americans and people in government.
Apparently not in any way that has teeth in it. Billy-boy was impeached for perjury, not lying. That had some teeth in it. He was effectively disbarred for perjury, not lying. That has some teeth in it.
Where are the teeth in these opinions you cite?
The press.
No teeth. Who gives a crap?
The judiciary.
Whaaaat? Only in the case of perjury, which was the distinction I made, not you.
Even the Republican members of Congress have (reluctantly) expressed concern about Trump's conduct.
LOL... so now the bar is "expressing concern"?
Are these the same Republicans who expressed concern about Hillary's pathological lying?
"Concern" is yet more opinion. The bar, if you'll remember, since you set it, was "threaten our system of government."
You've said NOTHING thus far to show how Trump's conduct does so.
Related question: why are you defending his consistent record of lying?
Of course not. I think he's a piece of human-shaped snake-droppings. But, that's just more opinion.
MY point was and always has been: YOU guys cherry pick your "outrage." the Clintons (both of them) are and always have been pathological liars. Billy-boy under OATH. No outrage from the likes of YOU.
So, don't feign "outrage" now. It's pathetic to watch you guys falling all over yourselves to magnify every transgression of Trump, while Hillary was selling us all down the river to the mega-corps, with nary a squeak from you.
You demand Trump's tax returns but consider Hillary's speech-transcripts to these mega-corps to be a non-issue.
You are UTTERLY partisan in your "outrage," and I'm simply pointing out what a joke it is.
I can understand the desire not to admit that you voted for this horror show, but deny the obvious?
I'm not denying the obvious. I found Hillary to be a greater horror-show than Trump, and I still hold that opinion. As did the widest swaths of America.
Had you Democrats had ANY brains in this election, so you would have gotten behind pretty much ANY other warm body besides the Hillabeast, we would not even be having this discussion, because THAT warm body instead of His Hairness would be in the WH.
You cherry-pick your "outrage," and that is funny.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Feb 15, 2017 - 06:37pm PT
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Madbolter...I agree with you about Hilly being a Wall Street pimp but what about Ryan and the other republican corporate lobbyists...You trying to say they are not about big business...Really...? Nice try..
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Feb 15, 2017 - 06:52pm PT
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Had you Democrats had ANY brains in this election, so you would have gotten behind pretty much ANY other warm body besides the Hillabeast,
We didn't have a choice
can you understand simple facts?
Millions voted for her to be the Primary winner, they loved her
one more word about Hillary and we will have to call 911 and send a wambolence
what an echo chamber you are, on and on for months now
Like it's our fault
No it's the people that voted for Trump, or voted third party, or didn't vote
and also the Republicans suppressing voter turnout
stop blaming the other side for Trump, we didn't Vote for Him..
you and they did, YOU are To Blame
You demand Trump's tax returns but consider Hillary's speech-transcripts to these mega-corps to be a non-issue. We have the transcripts, go read them
we have no tax returns, we know for a fact he doesn't pay taxes and has connections to Russia
and hasn't stopped his connections to all His Trump brands
equivalent?
Not in a million years
He appointed a Goldman-Sachs banker as cabinet member!!!
What kind of hypocrisy is that?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Feb 15, 2017 - 07:11pm PT
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Madbolter...I agree with you about Hilly being a Wall Street pimp but what about Ryan and the other republican corporate lobbyists...You trying to say they are not about big business...Really...? Nice try..
You make MY point.
They are ALL liars.
They are ALL pimps and whores.
They are ALL opposed to what is in our best interest.
The WHOLE game is rigged and based on lies and spin.
But you cherry-pick your outrage in entirely partisan fashion, and you'll vote party line regardless of how crappy of a deal the party hands you. You magnify the transgressions of the opposing party and minimize the transgressions of your own.
You all want to FORCE-feed your ideas down the throats of others and KEEP big-government infecting every tiny detail of our lives. You just want YOUR force to be in force. And you think that your cherry-picked horror gives you some moral high ground.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Feb 15, 2017 - 07:15pm PT
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you and they did, YOU are To Blame
Yup, I did vote for him, and with everything I know today, I would again.
I begged you for many months prior to the primary election to offer ANYBODY but Clinton. YOU have to own your commitment to that piece of work.
And YOU have to own the FACT that many/most people who voted Trump, like me, voted AGAINST Clinton.
YOU ensured that the election turned into TWO horror-shows rather than just one. And if YOU can't own that fact, then I'm going to LOL when next time you make the exact same mistakes all over again.
You voted Clinton in the primary. I didn't vote Trump in the primary. I did my best to keep us back from the brink that YOU were determined to push us to. How did that work out for ya?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Feb 15, 2017 - 07:21pm PT
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"Dr. F," I'm not dealing with your back-edits anymore.
And your speech transcripts BS is just that. Clinton has released nothing. You yourself said that wikileaks is not credible, and they only claimed to release a couple of her Goldman-Sachs speeches. But, of course, even those aren't credible. Right?
Quit gaming. Either post links to her many years of mega-paid speeches to the very mega-corps that funded her or shut up.
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Norton
Social climber
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Feb 15, 2017 - 07:25pm PT
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wow, that explains a lot
thanks
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Feb 15, 2017 - 07:27pm PT
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Thanks a lot Mad...I feel like a swamp peoples...
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Feb 15, 2017 - 07:28pm PT
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DON'T LIE DOWN WITH THE INSANE THEY'RE ALL MAD.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Feb 15, 2017 - 07:30pm PT
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Yup, I did vote for him, and with everything I know today, I would again.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Feb 15, 2017 - 07:42pm PT
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Would do wonders for your Hillaryitis...
LOL
No cure for it, though. It's terminal.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Feb 15, 2017 - 07:44pm PT
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READ THIS!
“We should not — and cannot — trust this man." A CIA vet on Trump's feud with US spies.
http://flip.it/hbMOCx
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Feb 15, 2017 - 07:54pm PT
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Norton, I agree. Madbolter's name choice is prescient.
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Norton
Social climber
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Feb 15, 2017 - 07:54pm PT
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why did I vote for Mr Trump?
of course many reasons, but mostly because I felt he could best represent all of America
that his own life most closely mirrored my own, he could relate and look out for people like me
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